S01E01 - Maine Policy Matters: The Impact of Maine Policy Review

Maine Policy Matters

The focus of Maine Policy Matters is the exploration of policy matters at the local, regional, and national levels as well as to highlight how policy decisions in Maine matter at the local, regional, and national levels. The double play on the title reinforces the mission, vision, and values of the Margaret Chase Smith Policy Center to inform public policy processes and promote civil discourse, integrity, and societal decision-making to solve the critical issues facing Maine and the nation. The podcast facilitates open and inclusive communication to advance relationships between policymakers, community leaders, students, faculty, and staff in the University of Maine System. In the first episode of the podcast, Dr. Linda Silka, the executive editor of Maine Policy Review and Senior Fellow at the Mitchell Center for Sustainability Solutions discusses the emerging and innovative policy research featured in the journal. She emphasizes MPR’s essential role in policymaking and policy education in Maine and discusses the scope and impact of the publication which has been downloaded over 260,000 times in over 203 different countries. This highlights that Maine policy matters to individuals across the globe.

[00:00:00] Daniel Soucier: Hello and welcome to Maine Policy Matters, the official podcast of the Margaret Chase Smith Policy Center at the University of Maine, where we discuss the policy matters that are most important to Maine's people and why Maine policy matters at the local, regional, and national levels. My name is Daniel Soucier, and I'll be your host.

[00:00:26] There are so many interesting and innovative things going on in Maine politics and Maine policy today that deciding on a topic for our initial podcast was no small feat. Instead of choosing one in our first episode, we sat down with Executive Editor of Maine Policy Review, Dr. Linda Silka, to discover the emerging policy issues that researchers, students, and policymakers are writing about in the Journal. Since its inception in 1991, Maine Policy Review has published nearly 800 articles and has well over two thousands subscribers. Since augmenting its print edition with a Digital Commons website, Maine Policy Review's articles have been downloaded over 260,000 times from over 9,100 institutions from over 203 different countries. This excellent resource highlights the variety of Maine policy matters being researched and debated in the state, but also shows that Maine policy matters to individuals across the globe.

Transcript

[00:01:35] Hi Linda, and thanks for joining us today. Thanks for asking me. Linda, can you tell us the topical focus of Maine Policy Review? What's contained in the journal the pages of the journal, and what's the overall mission for Maine Policy Review?

[00:01:50] Linda Silka: One of the things that is just so interesting about Maine Policy Review is what the title says, what the name of we are really focused on Maine and we're really focused on policy, and we're very much focused on, not the most immediate thing, but very much on review, on really thinking about what's gone on in the past, what's going to go on in the future, what's going on now, and how we can think about all of these things.

[00:02:19] Daniel Soucier: So would you say, so it's sounds like Maine Policy Review is not your, say, your typical academic journal with these like theorists and specialists that are speaking to audiences of like their specialist peers. But Maine Policy Review is something that's a bit broader. So could you describe for us the writing style and maybe the accessibility of Maine Policy Review? Who's really writing these articles for publication and what do you think their intended takeaways or their intended audience is?

[00:02:48] Linda Silka: Yeah. Really a good question. In a lot of states there's a big gap. There are great things being written by academics and there are great things being written by newspapers, but there isn't anything like a journal that, that takes a longer view that brings in different kinds of writers and really speaks to a kind of style of writing that doesn't assume that you have a whole bunch of academic knowledge. It doesn't dumb down anything. It just doesn't hide things behind the kind of academic knowledge we often use and our writers vary greatly. We have academics we have policy makers, we have business leaders, and we try very hard to help people write in a way that's going to help them reach a broad audience. That's really important. We want high school students to be pick able to pick up Maine Policy Review and say, oh, this relates to a class I'm in. We wanna have people living in senior facilities be able to do that.

[00:03:55] We want people in the Augusta State House. We want people that are working for councils of government. We want people to pick it up and say, I need to tell my other colleagues about this because it's really covering some important things.

[00:04:09] Daniel Soucier: That's fascinating. So it sounds like it combines the best of both worlds as part, living in the realm of academia, but still it is accessible to a broad broad audience. So it sounds like Maine Policy Review is this really content rich journal and is able to speak to a variety of different individuals. Both that are, in the realm of policy making as well as individuals just interested in understanding policy. So have you found that there's any specific themes or topics that's gotten more coverage over time in Maine Policy Review? Does Maine itself have any recurring issues that keep popping up in the journal over time?

[00:04:47] Linda Silka: One of the things that's a recurring issue and probably won't be a surprise to a lot of people, is. How do we keep our children in the state once they leave school, how do we make sure we have the jobs and the opportunities that people will stay?

[00:05:05] How do we make sure that people want to come to Maine who have the skills that we need? And that's a, that's an interesting struggle that if you look back we're in our bicentennial year. That's been a long-term struggle for Maine, is how to make sure that people can find what they need in the state.

[00:05:25] And there are a lot of policy issues there. They're about what kinds of jobs are available, how do we train people? They're about education. They're about the infrastructure that exists. We are. We are so far apart compared to other states in New England. Our distances are so great. We have opportunities to think about that in terms of the policy kinds of issues and having people come and have people stay, but they're recurring kinds of issues.

[00:05:53] And we are a state that is, on the one hand, we've long term been focused on things like marine issues and forestry and farming. Those are still very important, but how do we blend and think about those with other things that are going on in the times now. And so it, those are common kinds of issues that keep recurring and we really go at 'em, we really think about 'em.

[00:06:20] We don't say we haven't solved it, so we're never gonna be able to solve it. I, there's a real interesting can-do kind of approach.

[00:06:27] Daniel Soucier: So these, so I guess I'll look at it from the other side of the coin for a second. So do you think the fact that these policy issues keep recurring, so things like articles about jobs, articles about training, about education, about, eliminating the drain of young people from the state or maybe even attracting others to the state.

[00:06:48] If you, so you see these as recurring issues over time in Maine Policy Review. Do you think the state is does it mean we're having trouble solving these problems as a state? Or what do you make of that?

[00:07:01] Linda Silka: Another interesting question. What I make of it is that they really are difficult problems and we need to step up and try things.

[00:07:10] Not assuming that they're necessarily gonna work, but they're are. What we do is, is really based on the best evidence in terms of what's gonna go on. But they're really difficult kinds of issues and we gotta keep trying. One of the, they're now books being written by policy makers and academics that are about wicked problems and that should really resonate with Maine.

[00:07:34] And they use that term for these problems that don't have a single solution. They might be things that combine what we need to do about education. So increasing the number of students that go to college, what we need to do about the decline in certain industries, what we need to do about the issues that are going on in terms of an aging population.

[00:07:57] And they're, when I tell students, I say, okay, we're gonna talk about wicked problems. And I hold up, some of the books that have been written about it, they laugh. They just say, oh yes. 'Cause it really resonates in terms of the use of Wicked in, in, in Maine.

[00:08:14] Daniel Soucier: Absolutely. So you've, I guess you see Maine Policy Review looking at these wicked problems as a real asset that they keep recurring in the journal.

[00:08:24] Linda Silka: Yes. Yeah.

[00:08:25] Daniel Soucier: Great. So in every issue of Maine Policy Review, I see that you write a column entitled Reflections. And one theme I've seen running through these columns in Maine Policy Review is how Maine is at the forefront regionally and nationally and policy related matters. Can you expand on this and maybe speculate a little bit on Maine Policy R eview's role in propelling Maine to its position as this policy innovator?

[00:08:52] Linda Silka: Yeah. Last week I was down in Maryland at a meeting that was bringing together people from a lot of different states who were thinking about policy kinds of issues. And I took some copies of Maine Policy Review and we talked about some things that were there and that. In two weeks, I'm going to Arizona to give talks about some of these kinds of things at University of Northern Arizona.

[00:09:15] And they're interested in part in trying to figure out why is it that there are these interesting things going on in Maine. And there are a couple things that are. To me or fascinating about Maine, that may be why some policy kinds of things get started here and get going here. One is that people know each other.

[00:09:37] The degrees of acquaintance are people are pretty linked. It's so information gets passed around fairly quickly. The second is, and I'm not gonna name any states, but states that I've lived in. There's a lot of status oriented things that are not a part of the Maine kind of way of doing things.

[00:09:58] And I saw that status oriented approach really getting in the way of coming up with solutions. It was more about the person and less about the problem solving. And I think a third interesting thing is we have a whole set of the issues come together. So we have a coastline, a lot of interesting opportunities and problems.

[00:10:26] We have forestry, we have just all these things that come together and so we have to keep thinking about policy across our different kind of positions and points.

[00:10:37] Daniel Soucier: That's very interesting. So it's in some ways Maine Policy Review then is really reflective of Maine culture and of Maine society.

[00:10:46] Now one of my favorite parts of the journal, Linda, are these thought-provoking covers that are designed by Maine artist, Robert Shetterly. Now, we know that there's been a bit of controversy at times regarding the cover art for Maine Policy Review. Can you tell us a little bit about that controversy and what are the assets and liabilities for Maine Policy Review that come along with having such evocative cover based on original artwork?

[00:11:12] Linda Silka: Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes people are concerned when they see the artwork. They've, they draw conclusions about the artwork that are different than the artists expected. And I think it's the Maine way that they let us know.

[00:11:28] They don't just go and talk to their neighbors and say, but they let us know and then we actually try to be responsive, have a little piece, in the so the next issue about it. But one of the things that's interesting about the covers is I was over at one of the offices the, in the university, one of the big offices and we were talking a little bit about Maine Policy Review and they said, we are so jealous, we just love those covers. And when I go to visit different legislators, the first thing you'll see oftentimes on their table that in their waiting room is the Maine Policy Review. And when I was down in Washington for a meeting with our congressional representatives going to their offices, They had them on their tables, the Maine Policy Review, that was very exciting.

[00:12:18] Daniel Soucier: Interesting. So the having the same artist over time definitely gives Maine Policy Review a distinct look to it and it's brands it in a way. Now my favorite personal cover is, the sheep that's sitting in front of the recliner watching television and smoking a cigarette. This looking at a quintessential what's wrong with American lifestyle, piece of artwork.

[00:12:42] Which MPR cover is your favorite and why?

[00:12:46] Linda Silka: I have two favorites. One is the one for the library issue and where it shows a drawing of a cell phone, capturing that now we listen as opposed to ne necessarily reading. But it also shows the steps going up to it that look just like a library.

[00:13:07] So it captures that whole issue was about do we do we still need libraries? And the head of the UMaine Library and I wrote a piece for it that was called something like our library's necessary or are libraries obsolete. And it has been downloaded more than anything else I've ever written and I hear from people, and you look at the map that comes up on our website about what's being downloaded and where, all over the world people are thinking about that issue apparently.

[00:13:42] Daniel Soucier: That makes me really think about the scope and impact of Maine Policy Review and sort of the shift that covers really exemplary of the shift of Maine Policy Review in some ways from just being a print medium to having some sort of digital space.

[00:13:58] Now, the content of the journal from the articles and columns like yours that you write, To the cover art really make the journal a compelling read and a really recognizable feature, like you said, in legislative offices, in businesses, places like this. And so Maine Policy Review in its history is published nearly 800 articles over three decades, and there are over 2000 subscriptions to the print copy of the journal.

[00:14:27] So who are the individuals or institutions on MPR's mailing list that's that's receiving the journal.

[00:14:33] Linda Silka: Yeah. Every library in the state gets it, and you'll often see it displayed all the legislators get it. And then there also are a lot of individuals and organizations that, that get it.

[00:14:48] My hope is that high school students. Will you sit in their classroom? Since they can download articles and they can see things that we find more and more ways to really reach people across the age range because policy issues affect us all and the writing is really intended to be accessible to everybody.

[00:15:09] And we do have I mean there was a wonderful article in the Citizen Science issue that was a teacher who interviewed one of his students who was doing really interesting citizen science. I'd love to have every student in the state know about that, download it and read that article.

[00:15:30] Daniel Soucier: That's fascinating. Now I do know that the journal does have some relationship with high schools through the Margaret Chase Smith Library's essay contest, and that you do publish yes. At times articles from high school students. Could you talk a little bit about that?

[00:15:45] Linda Silka: Yeah. It's just, it's such an important kind of initiative to have, to assist students in seeing that they have something to offer, that they have something to say and to learn how to frame what it is they have to say and that it isn't just something that they shared with their family or shared with their teachers, but that it gets a broad audience by being in each year in one of our issues.

[00:16:10] And it's just really interesting to read those and. See what the students have to say and to get a sense of kind of, of what's going on. And another one of my dreams would be to have everyone who comes to Maine to teach in colleges in their orientations, that they would read those essays written by high school students in Maine to give a sense, get a sense of the culture and the talent that's there.

[00:16:37] Daniel Soucier: That's very interesting. A lot of people say that youth, is the call provides the call to action for policymakers. So it's great that you fold high school students into the journal.

[00:16:47] Now, what's really impressive to me regarding the readership of Maine Policy Review is it's not only, its vast impact throughout the state of Maine, right? You said it's in every library and in all these institutions, but it also has this worldwide readership. So I was thinking about this just this morning. And I looked online at the readership of the journal through University of Maine's Digital Commons website, and there was over 260,000 downloads of Maine Policy Review articles from almost 9,100 institutions in over an astounding 203 countries. So who's the typical audience accessing the journal online? In what ways do you think they're using Maine Policy Reviews content?

[00:17:32] Linda Silka: It's when you have time in the morning and your bored go on the website and just, you can just sit there and watch the downloads and it tells you which article. Who's downloading it, and there's a wonderful map. So you can see that people in India are downloading, or the it's just really interesting to see. And you can see that there's every kind of institution, represented. There are governments in different countries. There are schools, there are colleges, there are businesses. It's just very interesting. And I, to go back to the example earlier of the library issue, it's, and how often it gets downloaded.

[00:18:21] It's getting downloaded in all these different countries. You see it all, all over in Africa, in Eastern Europe. It, and so trying to think about what does that mean and how do we pay attention to that is just, it's just very interesting 'cause on the one hand, our primary audience is having this work for Maine, but knowing that it's really getting downloaded at a lot of, in a lot of other locations is very exciting.

[00:18:51] Daniel Soucier: Yeah, I absolutely agree. And it shows to how things have changed over time for Maine Policy Review. That, it's gone from this The sort of in-print only journal to having this broad worldwide appeal through the University of Maine's Digital Commons website.

[00:19:06] So clearly having some sort of online presence really is a benefit to the journal. So you're utilizing UMaine's Digital Commons website to increase the readership. In whay other ways is Maine Policy Review moving itself into the digital age where, print media seems to always need some sort of supplementation online, right? Because we have this 24 hour news cycle now, and individuals have this insatiable need that once they start learning about or researching various topics, it's just this need for instant gratification to learn everything you can about that topic. So in what ways is Maine Policy Review interacting with that?

[00:19:45] Linda Silka: What I think is really interesting is we're saying we're not going to simplify things in the sense that we're not gonna keep this kind of deep knowledge going on, but what we're gonna do is bring eyes to it and we're gonna use whether it is things like Twitter or other kinds of really skills that, different strategies that we're learning about and we have a lot to learn.

[00:20:06] But bringing the eyes to the issues, to the questions, to the opportunities, and using all of those different opportunities to increase people's thinking about policy in Maine, because what's true of a democracy, it's that we, ideally, we make decisions based on what everyone, thinks. Maine is leading in some of the ranked choice kinds of things that we're really thinking about those things.

[00:20:39] So how do we make sure that we're using new technologies to bring people to the complicated issues.

[00:20:46] Daniel Soucier: Yeah. So I did notice that you are you, like you said, you're on Twitter. There's this increased presence on social media, a Instagram account, a Facebook account, and it's very true that a lot of the content in Maine Policy Review can't be simplified down, can't be boiled down to the 144 characters or whatever. So it's interesting that you're using a platform like Twitter to steer people in the right direction by looking what people are talking about online and then saying, Hey, if you're interested in tourism, check out these articles.

[00:21:18] Linda Silka: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:21:20] Daniel Soucier: Fantastic.

[00:21:21] Linda Silka: Yeah. And it is just amazing on, really on all my travels. One of the first things I ask people when I'm giving talks different places, I say, have you been to Maine? And I get one of two different responses. One is, oh yes, and then long stories about being there. And the second is no, but I want to go to Maine.

[00:21:45] Now, growing up in Iowa, we didn't hear people saying things like that. And so how do we, people are very interested. They are interested in how we're solving problems. They're interested in coming and spending time here. How do we make sure that they know about the interesting kinds of ways we're thinking about how to solve problems.

[00:22:07] Daniel Soucier: So it sounds like you've been traveling a lot for work and you tell people about About Maine Policy review. People will have this interest in Maine. Maine has this very strong sense of place with visitors, with local people. Now, when you travel, do you take Maine policy with you?

[00:22:23] Linda Silka: Yes.

[00:22:23] Daniel Soucier: And what do people when you're traveling for conferences, to give talks, to have meetings? What are people's reactions? Those people from away when you introduce them to Maine Policy Review?

[00:22:33] Linda Silka: Two or three things people say. One is, We don't have anything like this. How did this get started? How do you do all of this? That's one thing people say. The second is are pieces downloadable. And the third thing that people often say is, I'm interested in _ policy issue. Have you had anything on that? And then I say yeah, and if we happen to be near a computer, I show 'em how you can go online and check those things out.

[00:23:04] Or if we're not, I show them. A copy or two that I'm carrying and I say let's see what's in this issue and things. So those are the kinds of questions that I get. But the first thing that, or the comments, but the first thing is usually, oh, we don't have anything like this.

[00:23:19] Daniel Soucier: That's interesting. So in some ways, Maine Policy Review is at the forefront of this exchange between academia, policy makers and having this real mix, this real asset of being able to talk amongst audiences, talk across different education levels like you said, getting high schoolers, college students involved all the way up through academics, policy makers, business leaders that's fantastic.

[00:23:44] And maybe

[00:23:45] Maybe if you look at that map of downloads as you're traveling around the country, maybe the downloads spike in areas where where you have been.

[00:23:52] Linda Silka: That would be fun.

[00:23:54] Daniel Soucier: So that's interesting because in some ways, it seems throughout our conversation here you're talking about how Maine Policy review exemplifies the uniqueness of Maine society and the uniqueness of culture in the state of Maine. Do you have any further thoughts on that or/

[00:24:09] Linda Silka: Here's an example of how I think that it does illustrate that, and that is one of the, we always have a Margaret Chase Smith essay written by somebody who's noted, about issues that are going on. One of them in the last few years was by Ted Ames. A fisherman. But he's also somebody who won the MacArthur Genius Award, and he's really thinking about how do we maintain our fisheries in a warming ocean? And having him be the person who wrote that, I think really illustrates something about Maine. Here's somebody who is deeply committed to fishing, but also deeply committed to policy and is internationally recognized for his innovative work in that area.

[00:24:57] Daniel Soucier: That's interesting. So Maine Policy Review in some ways is made by local people for local policy concerns, obviously with these broader ramifications, but it also creates some sort of local buy-in to these policy policy issues as well. That's, that's all incredibly fascinating. So I guess before we're out of time together, it'd be great for you to share with us like what's on the horizon for Maine Policy Review. Give listeners an idea of what where Maine Policy review is going in the future. Now I know Maine Policy Review has had a variety of special issues in the past, right? So topics like leadership, food, aging, climate change, and of course my favorite as a historian, the intersections between humanities and policy.

[00:25:43] So does Maine Policy Review have anything planned to commemorate Maine's bicentennial?

[00:25:48] Linda Silka: Yes. We're so excited about, we're doing an issue that's focused on the bicentennial and it really, the bicentennial in so many ways illustrates the kind of thing that we're trying to do with Maine Policy Review.

[00:26:02] Looking into the past, looking at the present, thinking about the future. And there's just so much that's terrific that is going on right now. Little snippets and papers. Just all kinds of wonderful things. Colin Woodard who's on our, our Maine Policy Review board has been doing amazing lead articles in the Portland paper about the bicentennial and the kind of history.

[00:26:28] So we're, we have great people who have come forward to write articles. We're really trying to capture all kinds of different perspectives, the past, the future, where we're going as a state and very excited about it as this issue will represent, I think what we do which is not focusing just on the present.

[00:26:52] But looking at the past, looking at the present and looking at the future.

[00:26:55] Daniel Soucier: That's interesting because it circles back to what we were talking about at the beginning of our conversation, which is the assets of Maine Policy Review, having these issues occur over and over again in the in the journals.

[00:27:08] So it sounds like the bicentennial issue in some ways brings all of that together and combines the when...

[00:27:14] Linda Silka: Great point.

[00:27:14] Daniel Soucier: ...the past, the present and future together, and a very concrete way for readers. Now moving into the digital world and administering a journal, editing a journal must have some unique challenges.

[00:27:28] So what are some of those unique challenges for Maine Policy Review as you move forward?

[00:27:33] Linda Silka: Really thinking about again, this, how to keep the depth of analysis that's included, but how to do it in a way that works when we have podcasts or when we have Twitters or when we have things on Facebook and how to really think about continuing to keep the complexity of the analysis so we end up with policies that have a long life, that work across different issues. And so many people haven't solved this yet. We probably, it'll take us a while to figure out how to bring together the digital age things, but we're working on it and we have. Telling people like you that are helping.

[00:28:14] Daniel Soucier: Thanks, I appreciate that. Now I know, yeah, I have seen that do, there's some facts and figures that get posted to Instagram and Facebook that shows like a chart of for example the age range of suicides in Maine.

[00:28:28] Linda Silka: Yes.

[00:28:28] Daniel Soucier: And then that steers readers to that article on that subject, or it talks about tourism in Northern Maine- there's charts about that, and then that steers readers to those broader articles. So in some way, it sounds like you're harnessing social media to say, here's an interesting clip that fits into those that one image or those 144 characters, and then saying, and here's the broader thing that, here's the broader topic you can get at.

[00:28:56] Linda Silka: Yeah. That's not the whole story. Go read the whole story.

[00:28:59] Daniel Soucier: Fantastic. That's great that you're doing that in this age of clickbait where people get headlines and then all they do is share the headlines and they never dig into the story. So it sounds like Maine Policy Review's really committed to this.

[00:29:13] Moving people towards the broader, the more complex story instead of just delivering those small snippets. And that is it.

[00:29:21] Linda Silka: And wouldn't it be fun if we had in neighborhoods across the state, like we had a Maine Policy Review day where neighbors just come together and everybody talks about the same article, but that's really relevant to something, that's going on in the state right now.

[00:29:37] I'm leading a number of book groups and where I'm really seeing just how much people like having something that can focus their discussions and boy, it would just be so interesting if we could move in that direction or thinking about the different faith communities where people regularly get together and could we have May is the month where you read a Maine Policy Review issue and talk about it. And we all, or people who are listening to this we decide, to do that in some way or going to a lot of the retirement communities, that are there, or that we come up with a package of materials for newcomers that come into our communities and one piece of that is a one pager about the Maine Policy Review and how they can, get it and learn from it.

[00:30:23] Daniel Soucier: Very interesting. So if you are if an individual who's listening is interested in setting up a book group or bringing MPR into their faith communities I've provided your contact information as the summary.

[00:30:35] Is it would it be good for them to contact you?

[00:30:37] Linda Silka: I'd love that.

[00:30:38] Daniel Soucier: You can steer them in directions.

[00:30:39] Linda Silka: Yes. I'd love that. Yeah.

[00:30:41] Daniel Soucier: So let's say to close let's pretend for a minute I'm a policy maker or I'm a business leader, or I'm an educator who's really discovering Maine Policy Review for the first time through this podcast, right? Listener out there. So can you tell me quickly why I should hop online and access my free copies of the journal? And in what ways is Maine Policy Review an asset to these individuals?

[00:31:06] Linda Silka: Yeah. What I would say to myself is, what's a problem that I'm worrying about or thinking about? And I don't know as much as I would like about it.

[00:31:17] Could be about roads, could be about children, could be about the environment. And if you go to the website, you'll see you can put in a word and a topic and pull it up. And so I would say you're gonna find think about what you're worried about. Think about things you want more information at.

[00:31:37] Think about things you really care about for Maine. Take a look at the website. Put in some words, see what you find, and then think about who are two or three other people that you know that you'd like to share those ideas with.

[00:31:54] Daniel Soucier: Fantastic. So Linda, I would like to thank you so much for sitting down with us today to talk about maine policy matters and why Maine Policy Review matters to the state of Maine.

[00:32:05] Linda Silka: Thank you. It was a pleasure.

[00:32:13] Daniel Soucier: Thanks for joining us on Main Policy Matters. You can find this in all of our episodes where podcasts are hosted, including SoundCloud, Stitcher, Spotify, iTunes, and Google Play. Remember to follow the Margaret Chase Smith Policy Center on social media and drop us a direct message as this show develops to express your support, provide us some feedback, or let us know what Maine policy matters to you. The information provided in this podcast by the University of Maine System acting through the University of Maine is for general education informational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the authors and speakers, and do not represent the official policy or position of the university.

[00:33:00] This is Daniel Soucier and I'll see you next time on Maine Policy Matters.