htmx: a new old way to build the web

JS Party: JavaScript, CSS, Web Development

Carson Gross (creator of htmx) & Alex Russell (Mr. Web Platform 3000) join Amal for an EPIC discussion on web architectures, the evolution of rendering patterns & the advantages of hypermedia and htmx. We dive deep on why modern web app best practices are falling short & explore how htmx gives devs an HTML-first approach to use tech that’s over 20 years old.

Tune in to learn a new way to do something old, so you can simplify your code & use JavaScript when/where it’s uniquely able to shine ✨

Join the discussion

Changelog++ members save 6 minutes on this episode because they made the ads disappear. Join today!

Sponsors:

• Socket – Secure your supply chain and ship with confidence. Install the GitHub app, book a demo or learn more
• Changelog News – A podcast+newsletter combo that’s brief, entertaining & always on-point. Subscribe today.
• Fly.io – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps and databases close to your users. In minutes you can run your Ruby, Go, Node, Deno, Python, or Elixir app (and databases!) all over the world. No ops required. Learn more at fly.io/changelog and check out the speedrun in their docs.

Featuring:

• chg – GitHub, X
• Alex Russell – Website, GitHub, Mastodon, X
• Amal Hussein – GitHub, X

Show Notes:

• htmx site and docs
• EPIC htmx Twitter
• Hypermedia Wikipedia
• Hypermedia Systems - A free digital book from Carson Gross, Adam Stepinski, and Deniz Aksimsek
• Hypermedia Reintroduction (from Hypermedia Systems book)
• Infrequently - Alex Russell’s EPIC blog
• The Market for Lemons
• Performance Inequality Series from Alex Russell
• Netflix Web Performance Case Study (refactoring the Netflix login to vanilla html, js and css)
• Roy Fielding’s Dissertation on REST
• REST APIs Must Be Hypertext-Driven
• HATEOAS Wikipedia
• Open Web Advocacy Group
• Open UI Group
• The Website vs Web App Dichotomy Doesn’t Exist
• As We May Type
• More Capable Form Controls
• Fun Hacks for Faster Content
• Google jsaction lib on Github
• Intercooler.js (Carson’s precursor to htmx)

Previous Changelog interviews with Carson Gross on htmx:

• Is htmx the way to Go? (Go Time #266)
• Less JavaScript more htmx (JS Party #171)

The Market for Lemons - Diagram on Session & Interaction Depth vs Application Architectures (referenced in our podcast discussion)

Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

บท

1. It's party time, y'all (00:00:00)

2. Hello, everybody! (00:00:56)

3. Getting to know Carson (00:03:51)

4. Getting to know Alex (00:10:13)

5. How we got here (00:13:59)

6. The hypermedia protocol (00:18:58)

7. Sponsor: Socket (00:22:56)

https://socket.dev/?utm_source=changelog&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=changelog-interviews

8. Why do we need JSON? (00:26:20)

9. What htmx is all about (00:48:02)

10. Ajax with attributes (00:53:38)

11. Sponsor: Changelog News (00:59:38)

https://changelog.com/news

12. When htmx is not a good idea (01:01:30)

13. Who's doing this well (01:13:07)

14. Web components & htmx (01:27:40)

15. What the web is missing (01:31:48)

16. Wrapping up (01:42:03)

17. Next up on the pod (01:43:43)