Richard Hundhausen and Brad Frazer: Who Owns the Code? - Episode 366

Azure & DevOps Podcast

Brad Frazer is a Boise-based attorney and partner at Hawley Troxell, Idaho’s largest law firm, where he leads the Intellectual Property & Internet practice group with a specific focus in IP Strategy, AI, Data Security, and IT. A graduate of BYU, UC Hastings, and the University of Utah, Brad has decades of experience in cybersecurity, internet law, and IP, including roles as Deputy General Counsel at major tech firms. He’s also a published novelist and a recognized expert in emerging technologies like blockchain, NFTs, and Web3.

Richard Hundhausen helps software organizations and teams deliver better products by understanding and leveraging Azure DevOps and Scrum. He is a Professional Scrum Trainer and author of Professional Scrum with Azure DevOps (MS Press). As a software developer and consultant with over 30 years of experience, he understands that software is built and delivered by people and not by processes or tools.

Topics of Discussion:

[2:24] Richard and Brad share their enthusiasm for AI, and they discuss the legal implications of using AI-generated code.

[4:00] Brad explains that ownership of AI-generated code is academic until legal issues arise, such as lawsuits or investment rounds.

[5:29] Richard explains the process of using AI tools to create code, emphasizing the iterative nature of the process.

[8:02] The nuances of copyright law, including the need for human authorship to establish ownership.

[10:57] How one gets a registered copyright.

[14:19] The different things that AI-driven development can mean.

[19:44] Risk avoidance practices as a coder.

[23:46] Brad advises software developers to be aware of the legal environment and the potential risks of using AI tools.

[24:59] What is an AI output, and what is just the computer being helpful?

[32:35] Brad shares a real-world example of a $20 million deal where the seller did not own the code, highlighting the potential risks.

[38:38] Brad mentions the Anthropic case, where the company was sued for training its LLM on copyrighted material.

[41:22] Richard and Brad discuss the importance of raising awareness and providing resources to help developers understand the legal implications of using AI tools.

Mentioned in this Episode:

Clear Measure Way

Architect Forum

Software Engineer Forum

Brad Frazer LinkedIn

Richard Hundhausen LinkedIn

Thaler vs. Perlmutter

Bartz v. Anthropic

Who Owns the Code?

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