WhoopsyDaisy Farm Followup - Benefits of Sheep's Milk

A Tiny Homestead

Today I'm talking with Rachel at WhoopsyDaisy Farm. You can also follow on Facebook.

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00:00
This is Mary Lewis at A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe, share it with a friend, or leave a comment. Thank you. Today I'm talking with Rachel at WhoopsyDaisy Farm. Again, because last time we were supposed to talk about her book and about sheep's milk, and we talked about everything but I think. Good morning Rachel, how are you? I'm good, how are you? I'm good. You're in Kentucky, right?

00:29
Yes. Okay. All right. So let's try this again. I would love to hear all about the benefits of sheep's milk. Awesome. Well, you know, a couple of years ago, even just talking about milk as a health food was really weird, you know, because there's been such a push in our culture against the benefits of dairy, you know, nut milks and other protein milks have really been pushed forward.

00:59
If we return to a traditional source of our protein, a lot of us are seeing these autoimmune and chronic health issues are just kind of melting away. So there's groups like the Weston Price Foundation who've really pushed the benefit of raw milk especially. And with sheep's milk, pretty much everything that is beneficial about the cow and goat milk is in sheep's milk, but you multiply it by two or three.

01:26
So it's as beneficial as all the other raw milks, just more so. Okay. So I have questions. Number one, how much milk can you get from one sheep in a day? Well, it depends. There's, there's a couple of different factors that play with the amount, you know, and it's the same thing with cows and goats too. So you, the factors are breed and feed predominantly.

01:55
you know, there's some breeds of sheep that can give up to a gallon a day, especially the East Frisian sheep, which is like the whole steam of the sheep dairy world. But if you want to milk a non-dairy breed of sheep for, and there's a couple of reasons why you would want to do that. Sometimes you get as little as a cup of day, but usually more like a pint or a quarter a day. Okay. And I'm, I'm guessing that she, she being, uh-huh.

02:24
milking a sheep is not a whole lot different than milking a goat. Correct. Sheep teats are more on the side of the udder. So I haven't actually milked a goat. I have milked a cow. We, we own a Jersey cow. And it's very different milking a sheep than it is a cow because cow teats are on the bottom of the udder. You're not moving the udder. You're just squeezing the teats and just collecting milk that's automatically pooling there. With a sheep, you actually kind of have to

02:51
guide the teats and the udder toward the teats are facing whatever you're collecting the milk and if you're hand milking. Now they are starting to make attachments on mechanical milkers that will fit sheep. But if you can't find one specifically for sheep, you can use attachments for goats as well. And you know, sometimes there's a little bit of a difference in the udders there, but it's pretty compatible between goat and sheep. Okay. Now the next question I have, I don't even know how to ask it correctly, so bear with me.

03:21
Cows give a metric butt ton of milk when you milk them and clearly sheep don't. So how does this become financially viable? Does it? Yeah, so gallon for gallon you're going to get more cheese out of sheep's milk than you are cow or goat. And there's a lot less waste. A lot of cheese makers.

03:47
Traditionally, they raise pigs and the pigs would eat the whey and get fat off of it. Some homesteaders are starting to experiment with fermenting grains with the whey for like their chickens or pigs and that kind of thing. But for the most part, modern cheese makers just dump the whey. Either they discard it down a drain or, you know, some of the more creative ones will spray it on their fields as like a fertilizer probiotic. But I mean, there's not a lot of uses in our culture today for whey.

04:14
And so having a milk where there's not a ton of that whey waste is, you know, appealing if you're going to do a cheese making enterprise. I mean, the other thing too, is that, you know, when my husband and I started off, we really didn't have a use for three to eight gallons of milk per day from our cow, which she doesn't give that much. But I mean, like if you have a dairy cow, like you're looking at gallons per day, not cups or quarts or whatever. So.

04:40
To have a smaller amount of milk to play with and learn what to do with was really appealing for me. The other thing is that, you know, some people see this as a con. I saw it as a pro that my sheep will milk for only about six months in a year. So we had a six month break where we weren't milking every single day. And I mean, if you're in a commercial operation, that's not necessarily appealing, but if you're a homesteader and you want to like,

05:07
go someplace for the holidays or you just don't want to go outside because it's nasty out, having that break can be appealing. Okay. There's a couple of things I want to ask and I'm going to forget, so I'm going to ask you to remind me the second one. The first one, tell me in layman's terms why sheep's milk is good for you to drink or eat in things.

05:30
The second one is I think sheep's milk is really good in soaps and lotions. So if you could talk about that, if you know the answer to that too. Yeah. So the first benefit of sheep's milk is the fat. Sheep's milk has two to three times the amount of fat as cow or goat's milk. And the fat is actually differently shaped. It's smoother and it's smaller in shape, which means that minerals will pack more tightly to it.

06:00
Like I said, it's a lot more smoother and so the smoothness factor is beneficial because if you have any kind of leaky gut issue, if you have any digestive issues, those smooth fat globules will actually go through your digestive tract easier and it will help repair your digestive tract as it goes through. The next thing is, did I say fat or proteins? Fat. Fat, okay.

06:27
The protein in sheep's milk is A2A2, which if you're familiar with that, it's a specific kind of protein that is easier to digest than A1 proteins. But the sheep milk A2 protein is again, differently shaped and it's more, your body can assimilate it easier. They're studying a particular chemical in milk fat and I can't remember what it's called offhand.

06:53
but they're finding that it's actually kind of toxic. And if you have too much of a buildup in it, your body can turn it into a radical, like a free radical and it causes issues. Sheep milk has that, but it's bound. And so it just passes right through your system. Whereas cow milk, it doesn't do that. And then sheep milk has the lowest amount of lactose of cow and goat milk. And so it's a lot more similar to human breast milk. The milk that has the

07:21
lowest amount of lactose that is the most similar to human breast milk is actually camel milk. Which we've actually purchased camel milk in the past to help some gut healing stuff and it's like $100 a gallon. You can get it here in the United States and sheet milk is more like $40 a gallon. So if you need that kind of low lactose milk, it's a much more affordable version of it. And the low lactose basically means

07:49
that it doesn't ferment very quickly. So a lot of people who say they are lactose intolerant, it's not that they're lactose intolerant, it's just they have sluggish digestion. And so as the milk is going through their digestive tract, those sugars are fermenting in their gut and the gas is a byproduct of the fermentation process. So like if you think of when you make sauerkraut or kombucha, like a lot of people say, burp your ferments, because you're letting that gas go out into the air. And when you have gas after eating,

08:19
Milk, it's the same thing. It's just, you know, you're not opening a glass jar, you're farting or belching. So. Yes, exactly. You have a low lactose milk, you're getting all the benefits of the probiotics, the enzymes, the fats, the proteins, but it's not fermenting and then you're not embarrassing yourself if you're in public. And again, since it's ferment slower, it's doing a healing movement through your digestive tract. So.

08:48
And then there's plenty of enzymes, there's probiotics that we're learning more and more, we just desperately need on a daily basis. So there's a study currently being done by an overseas university and they're finding that cow milk when it's raw will either contain or create betaine in your body and that's a digestive enzyme. And so it's a self-digesting food.

09:11
Sheep milk actually contains more than enough to digest itself, so it's actually helping you digest other foods as well. So that's your crash course on sheep milk and digestion. Thank you. Okay. So I know that people use sheep's milk in soaps and lotions. I didn't forget. I knew I thought I would forget, but I didn't. So I'm assuming that it's really good for your skin too. Yeah. You know, with the human genome problem.

09:40
project and discovering the microbiome and all that gobbledygook like we're we're realizing as a society more and more that not all germs are bad and we do need to have other beasties besides human cells playing with us nicely so you know when you're using antibacterial products all the time you're actually just destroying the the biota on your skin and so when you use a natural soap like sheep milk or goat milk that's made with natural products you're actually

10:10
rebuilding that on your skin and it actually like lends itself to a more healthy immune system overall in your body. So you know there's that dynamic and again the fats are really absorbable. You know there's proteins, there's enzymes, there's sugars that your skin can just automatically take and assimilate so you have a healthier skin or healthier hair. Nice, okay.

10:37
So if the sheep's milk has such a high fat content, does it make amazing ice cream? Oh yes. Yeah? Very, I mean that's sheep milk ice cream or sheep milk yogurt are typically the two entries people have to it as a food product. Okay, the reason I ask is I am not a huge ice cream fan, I never have been, but I like really good ice cream if I'm gonna eat it, the real smooth.

11:06
I don't know, decadent ice cream. Yeah, I'm the same way. And they don't know if that's because the higher end ice creams use a higher fat content or if they put all kinds of things in it to make it do that. Well, there's a couple of factors at play. I mean, cheap ice cream, some of the ingredients used for the flavoring are the same ingredients they use for like washer fluid in your car. Okay.

11:34
So if it's a higher end ice cream and you're paying more for it, typically they're using more real ingredients than the cheap ones. So that's probably part of it. But the other part is too, yeah, when you have a higher fat content, for some people, like I am German, Polish, Welsh in my ethnicity. I mean, there's a couple other Northern European genes in there.

12:03
in the mountains or on the coast, very poor peasant people. And so they were not having fruit loops and Twinkies to get through a days of hard work. They were eating really, really hardcore proteins and fats. You know, I don't know that there was a single vegan or vegetarian in my family tree ever. So I need more fats on a day-to-day basis. So with the sheep's milk,

12:28
you know, that actually really helps my body digest other foods. Like if I'm going to eat a vegetable, I need it to be drenched in butter. And that's not just for flavor. It's it helps my body digest it easier. And butter's yummy. I love butter. Butter makes me so happy. It does. It does. My son asked me this morning, he sent me a recipe for a double chocolate chip cookie. And he was like, do we have the stuff to make this? And I said, um.

12:56
everything but the butter. I said you'll have to see if there's any in the freezer because I don't think we have enough butter handy to make them. He said can I make them if there's butter? I was like, please do. I would love you to make me some double chocolate chip cookies. Exactly. He was like, oh, oh, okay. He said I was thinking of making them. He said I was gonna make them for you. I said I'm kidding. But yes, I would love a double chocolate chip cookie. That'd be fantastic.

13:24
Yeah, but I mean, if he's using your kitchen, then he's got to pay tax, right? Yes, absolutely. So that's my little aside for butter content this morning. That's the only thing I can pull in. Anyway, so you wrote a book about sheep's milk and nutrition and the benefits. Is that what the book is about? Yeah. So the first couple of chapters are about the benefits and nutrition of sheep's milk.

13:50
To be honest, at the time when I was writing the book, I had to scrounge for any information on the health benefits of sheep milk. It was really hard to find actual data. Most of what I found was like, sheep's milk has more nutrients, so you should try it. And I was like, well, that's not helpful. I need to know what nutrients I need to know, you know, something besides just there's more. So

14:17
there's one chapter that's solidly just sheep milk nutrition. Since writing the book, I have started finding more resources that are more in depth on the nutritional benefits of sheep milk. So I do have plans to write another book or two. But the book overall is basically how you can raise sheep and get sheep's milk from them and not lose your mind. Because in our country, sheep have lots of rumors and...

14:46
slanders and reputations and most of them are not true. I'm actually finding through research that there was a proactive push in our country against sheep and shepherding so that the cattle industry could become a lot more predominant. So, you know, a lot of the things that quote everyone knows unquote about sheep are just not true. Like I've had people come up and be like, sheep are stupid, right? And I'm like, no, they're not. They're like, no, but they are. I'm like, no, they're not stupid. They just don't make good humans.

15:15
So like I talked about that like sheep do have species specific psychology and if you learn how to work with that it's a very enjoyable experience. I go into a lot of information about the sheep's nutrition because that directly affects breeding and lambing. You know animal husbandry is really key with sheep to have an enjoyable shepherd and experience and the problem in our country is that we're so inundated with bigger, better, faster, fatter, cheaper, leaner. As Joel Saliton says.

15:45
And sheep don't thrive in that kind of environment. So, you know, I've done a lot of pushback from some shepherds because I don't recommend breeding your sheep in their first year. I really recommend strongly that you wait till they're at least a year and a half before you breed them. So they're two years old when they land. And there's a lot of pushback against that because, you know, you're cutting in on your you're cutting your profits and you're increasing your cost when you wait. However, when you wait till a sheep is larger, you

16:13
don't have the need to assist in lambing and lambing season is not the nightmare that it has a reputation for being. You know, with just a simple animal husbandry trick is just wait for them to become full grown because most sheep take two years to become full grown. They don't mature in their first year. So you know, I talk about that and I talk about training sheep, which again, you really need to understand sheep psychology to in order to train them because, you know,

16:40
You can train a sheep to pull a cart, you can train them to walk on a leash, you can train them to do tricks, but you have to earn their trust. And you can't just walk up to a sheep and be like, trust me, you have to understand that to them, you're a predator and you have to basically convince them that you're a sheep. And I don't mean walking around on all fours and buying, but like you have to really spend time in non-threatening ways to convince them that they should trust you so that they'll do what you want. So I talked about that. I have a few.

17:08
recipes in the book. So it's basically the book I wanted to have when I started shepherding and couldn't find anywhere. Yeah, I swear that's why people write books. They're like, the book that I want to read isn't out there. I'm going to write it. Yeah, basically, I've heard that from so many people, like, this is the book I wanted to read when I was starting out. And I'm like, oh, I thought that was my idea. But no, I guess it's not. Yeah. And the big difference is there's lots of people who are like, I want to write the book that I want to read, but they're not writers.

17:38
Yeah. And so if you happen to be able to string words together in a reasonable manner that is readable, then you should write that book because then you have the book you wanted to read and you get to make money off of it too. Exactly. Although just a spoiler alert for everyone, the whole starving artist dynamic does come into play with being an author as well. I am not rolling in cash because of book sales and I'm doing really good book sales. So yeah, it doesn't.

18:07
It doesn't necessarily pertain to podcasting either. Yeah. But it's still enjoyable and you do make some money. So it's worth it. It's just, you're not going to go on a cruise just off of podcasting or authoring. So. Yeah. I actually looked at my, my monetization cause I just monetized it like three weeks ago. I've made a whopping just under $4 in three weeks. You can get a Starbucks coffee now.

18:34
Probably not because I want the medium-sized one and I want the fancy one. So now I'm gonna buy that Okay, well next month maybe I could I could maybe get a terrible Burger off the dollar menu at some fast food restaurant, but I don't really want that so no I'll pass. It's good. Yeah, but yeah, no artist gets rich quick unless

19:00
Unless by some miracle they have connections in the industry they're working in, then maybe, but not always. But that's okay. So is the book self-published or is it through a publisher? It is through a publisher. Sawdust Publishing is a brand new publishing company by homesteaders, for homesteaders. The founder of the company, Janet Garman, has actually published.

19:29
several books. So she's done it through a traditional publisher, she's self-published, she's used, you know, she's done ebooks, she's used independent publishers. So she's kind of done the whole gamut. And she was like, I want to make this accessible to new authors. I want price points to be accessible to readers. I want authors to actually get paid what they're worth. So instead of writing the book she wanted to read, she made the publishing company she wanted to use.

19:58
So again, it's very small, but all of the books are very practical, very easy to read, very plug and play information for people wanting to do the topics discussed in the books. So I was really happy I got to work with them. And you know, a lot of people have asked me about self publishing, you know, and I don't think there's anything wrong with self publishing. I will say having an editing staff is...

20:26
worth their weight in gold because I have done a couple ebooks and the experience of hitting up some friends saying, hey, could you edit my work? And they'd say, sure. And so you send them the file. Like they just, they're not going to be as effective as someone who's paid to edit, who doesn't care about your feelings. And so it's going to be ruthless. Like I really think like

20:49
My traditionally published book is a much better quality piece of literature than the stuff I put out myself just because I don't have that feedback of the people who are paid to make it better. Yeah. Your friends aren't going to tell you to kill your darlings, but the editor that gets paid is going to tell you to kill that darling. Right. Yeah. Like the editor straight up said, you're rambling here. Like, this makes no sense. And my friend was like, you know, I maybe tighten that up a little bit.

21:19
It's just different and I do better with direct up frontness. Like a friend was like, oh, maybe you should edit it some more. And I was like, no, that's why I sent it to you. So you tell me where to edit it. Um, you know, so. Yes. And I actually did help people publish their books many years ago, maybe 15 now. And it was really hard because I won't mention who it was. I only did four.

21:48
Cause it was a lot of work and a lot of time involved to do it. But, but I was like, you, you need to rewrite this section. And the person was like, okay. And then they would rewrite it. And it was the same thing. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You need to fix this and this and this and this. And I actually wrote it down for her and it just never came together. And I was like, okay, this is how you want it to be. So we're going to go with this.

22:18
It's really hard to be in that business. And especially if you're just a really avid reader who's really good at editing. Like, I got into it because a friend wanted to write a book and I was like, you should do that. And then the friend did it and they were like, can you help me self-publish this? And I was like, sure, I'll set up an account and you know how to do it. And I did it. I don't wanna do it anymore.

22:48
It's too much for one person. So, but is the book of, is your book available on Amazon for people who like to buy their books that way? It is if you are in the United States. I'm trying to convince my publisher that she needs to do Amazon overseas. We just, right now we don't have the demand to justify that through the publishing company. So if you are in a different country listening to that, you can contact me.

23:17
on my website or my email and I will set up international shipping for you. Just you will have to pay the shipping cost to get it to you, which I shipped a couple books to Australia and New Zealand and apologize to those purchasers up one side and down the other because it is very steep shipping to get it over there. And we don't have a digital version of the book at this point. We might in the future, but right now it's just the hard copy. Oh, okay. That was going to be my next question. So cool. Yeah.

23:46
Is there a reason why and there's no digital copy yet? Basically, the publisher would have to hire a whole new staff and it would be a whole new learning curve. Like it's not as simple as just you upload a file to a website. You have to do formatting and then you have to make sure the formatting is translatable across different readers. So like Kindle is not the same as your iReader. So you have to make two different formats and that kind of thing. So it's basically.

24:14
They're just not large enough at this point to justify the staff for that because most of our customers are in the farming or homesteading community and we may not all wear tin foil hats 24-7, but we have them somewhere and so we want hard copies of books just in case. So the demand more is for hard copies anyway. So to hire a whole new staff for the few people who want the digital version, it just doesn't justify the cost right now.

24:41
Okay, that makes all the sense in the world. I was just curious because everybody's so about e-books these days and I would die hard. I don't want an e-reader back when they became a thing. And now I read every night on my e-reader, my tablet. Because I don't have to have a light on in my room to read it, I can actually just read it with the light from the screen. Right. Well, and I mean...

25:07
I don't know, I can definitely see it both ways. I have a really good friend who is, it is her vendetta in life to get me to read on something digital. But, you know, for me, there's actually studies being done that if you hold a hard copy and turn the page, you retain that information better than if it's an electronic device. And then, you know, there's all kinds of studies being done on blue lights and EMFs and all that kind of stuff. And where my, and my husband's systems are so messed up, we're healing them on a daily basis.

25:37
I'm just like, you know, I will just buy a hard copy. It's healthier. And then my grandkids can enjoy it versus, I don't know what they're gonna have, you know, down the road. They may not be able to use my e-reader. So there's my reasoning. I mean, I don't have an issue with people who want digital copies. It's just, we don't have that available right now. So- Well, maybe, maybe sooner than later, they'll be available. That would be great. Yeah. Okay, let me think. I had questions when I began this and then we get talking and now I don't know where they went.

26:06
They flew away. Okay, so when, we have five minutes left, when your sheep have lambs and you're milking your sheep, do you let the lambs get what they want and then do you continue to milk the sheep after they've gotten what they need or how does that work? Yeah, so that's a animal husbandry topic that will elicit bloodshed on the sheep boards.

26:36
Oh, well, I wouldn't worry about it. No, no, no, I'm just saying like it's a lot of people. When people ask me that, I'm like, you I know what I do on my farm, but for other people wanting to decide, it's like you really need to look at the data and decide what works best for you. My flock is is I have East Frisian genetics, but my dairy crosses are all East Frisian is crossed with another heritage breed. So what works for me is I will separate the lambs for 12 hours and then milk the ews at the end of that time and then put the lambs back with the ews.

27:05
And then that way the lambs can nurse off the ewes for the next 12 hours and they're getting nutrition that way. I do let my lambs stay on the ewes exclusively for two weeks right after they're born. So they're getting all the colostrum. Some of my more heavier producers, I will go ahead and milk them once a day just because they're producing so much. They need that extra taken off. That way I have colostrum in the freezer just in case something terrible happens.

27:30
And I'm keeping their milk supply up. But for like the Gulf Coast native heritage sheep, I just let the lambs stay on them because they, they're not producing an overabundance. They don't need that pressure taken off. So with some of the heavier producing breeds, like the purebred east creations overseas, you can let the lambs have all they want to, and they still produce enough where you can get a harvest. It's not a huge harvest, but you know, you can do it. So most people separate lambs.

28:00
for some amount of time to harvest milk. And again, there's different reasonings behind each of it. When I was doing my research, the study showed that if you let the lambs have the milk exclusively for a month and then took them off and did either put milk in a bucket from whatever, they had a lower butcher weight than the lambs who were.

28:25
given the colostrum exclusively for two weeks and then were separated for 12 hours. They, at weaning weight, were less heavy than the lambs who had, you know, access to the milk for three months solidly. But then once the 12-hour separated lambs were given, you know, food and nutrition that was for adults, they caught back up to the same weight as the other lambs quickly. So for us wanting milk and wanting healthy lambs,

28:55
We've decided that separating for 12 hours at a time and the milking is the best setup for us. But, you know, there's reasons to do it different ways. Okay. That's what I was wondering about. And I'm going to cap off this episode of this podcast by saying something I've wanted to say for months. I am so sick of people thinking that they know what's best for other people. And you just touched on it with the people on the boards.

29:23
And honestly, life is a learning curve. Yeah. And you cannot say to somebody, you're doing it wrong. If you know that they're doing the best they can and doing the research as they can to do the best they can. It makes me so crazy. Yeah, same here. Well, and it's like the whole point of us doing small farming and homesteading is to find what works for us.

29:51
to have food that works for us, to have a lifestyle that works for us. And yeah, I mean, every single farm is different. Every animal conglomerate on every farm is different. Every human running the farm is different. I mean, both my husband and I have scoliosis and he has kyphosis and he works in emergency services. We're not going to raise Cornish Cross chickens because their tight schedule does not work for us. But my friend up the road, Cornish Crosses work.

30:19
Perfect for her. So great. She has fatter chickens than me. It's fine. So I really think the Battles being fought amongst us about well you do you feed your you know, you're ruminant some grains Oh, no, I do only grass-fed grass-fed stupid. How dare you use chemicals. It looks like stop everyone stop We're all doing the best we can we're all learning

30:45
We're all having learning curves. And what I do this year may not work next year, and it certainly didn't work two years ago. So just everyone take a deep breath and chill. Yeah. And consider other people's perceptions, perspectives, and maybe learn from other people too. Yeah. It really, it just chaps my ass when people are like, you're doing that wrong. It's like, okay.

31:07
Right. I might be, but I guess I'll find out if something actually goes wrong with it. In the meantime, I'm going to keep trying to learn how to do this. I think asking people their why behind their choices is really important. Like I have a friend and she is really, really up like in people's face of feed your cow grains and stop judging everyone and stop forcing grass fed. And so, you know, it's like her why is she's seen cows die from starvation. And I get that,

31:37
The person who's like, you can must do it only exclusively grass fed. Well, the milk from a cow who only eats grass is molecularly different than a cow who's fed grains and she has health issues where she benefits from exclusively grass fed. I don't think either of those two friends are wrong, but neither of them are going to learn from each other and they both irritate me when they get all up and about what to feed your cow. And it's like, breathe. We're all doing the best we can. We all have our cows. We all love their milk. It's fine. Like it will be okay.

32:07
Yes. And the same could be said, you know, the up in your face thing. It's a big deal right now across the board in the world on many, many things. Yes. I had a friend over yesterday who I love to death. And I said, did you watch the debate the other night? And she said, she said, can, can we have a discussion about politics without becoming a battle? And I was like, of course we can. Because, because apparently her husband is the opposite.

32:33
party than she is, which makes their discussions about politics really interesting at home. Oh boy, yeah. And I said, I think that we just need to get through this election cycle and remember that we are all humans, we're all doing our best and try to respect each other. And she went, I love you. Yeah. So let's just try to remember we're all humans, we're all doing our best and try to respect each other every day. And maybe things would be a little less combative. I 100% agree with that.

33:02
And that's all I have to say getting anywhere near politics because I do not talk about politics on the podcast because it's a bad plan. But just be a decent human people. It makes things so much easier. It really does. And you know, I think working with sheep and seeing when you're gentle and polite and calm and peaceful, you have a really good shepherding experience. And when you're fast and loud and demanding, those sheep say,

33:30
Absolutely not. And there's more than one reason why the Bible compares us to sheep all throughout the entire book. And it's not because we're stupid. Mm hmm. Yes, exactly. And really gentle and patient helps in a lot of situations. So no surprise that sheep are like that. So I know when people come up to me all loud and waving their hands and scary, I'm going to back up. Yeah. So.

33:59
There you go. All right, Rachel, so we actually talked about the thing we were supposed to talk about. I'm so proud of us. I know, me too. All right, thank you for coming back. I appreciate it. No problem, my pleasure. Have a great day. You too. Bye.