Soundbite: Friends of TPV with Kemi Egan

The Property Voice

Today I am joined on the show by Kemi Egan, who is a property investor, author and entrepreneur.

She should be familiar to our audience having joined me on other episodes over the years, including during the Women in Property series a while ago.

Kemi and I have been friends for some time. We became increasingly aware that we also shared a similar vision to support causes beyond ourselves, common values and also aligned business interests. It was therefore no surprise that we would find a way to collaborate as business partners in some way or another.

That’s the essence of this episode in a way; how we came to business partners, what we decided to do in business and then the crazy year that we have seen this year in business together as a result.

We speak about how we set out first goal for the year, which we labelled as ‘1X’. Then, what triggered us to reset that goal to ‘3X’, which at the time was quite random and truly without foundation. Then, assuming the ‘in flight’ deals land in time, how we may well land at ‘7X’, all being well.

This takes us on a journey through selecting business partners, looking beyond roles and capital contributions. How to take care of one another in business, goal-setting, business development and business execution strategies to some extent too.

It’s been quite a year; some would say a game changing one. So, have a little listen and see what nuggets you can take away and apply into your own business; property or otherwise…

Resources:

The Property Voice YouTube Channel

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The Property Voice Meetup Page & Eventbrite Page

Property Deal Tips

How to Reach Richard By Telephone

Link to the Podcast feedback survey

TPV Apprentice Programme info HERE

Today’s must do’s

Subscribe to and review the show in iTunes…and while you are at it please help us to spread the word by telling all your friends too!

#PropTech: A guide to how property technology is changing how we live, work and invest – a link to the latest book.

Property Investor Toolkit – here is the book link on amazon.co.uk & amazon.com in case you would like to get yourself a copy to accompany this series

Transcription of the show

Today I am joined on the show by Kemi Egan, who is a property investor, author and entrepreneur.

She should be familiar to our audience having joined me on other episodes over the years, including during the Women in Property series a while ago.

Kemi and I have been friends for some time. We became increasingly aware that we also shared a similar vision to support causes beyond ourselves, common values and also aligned business interests. It was therefore no surprise that we would find a way to collaborate as business partners in some way or another.

That’s the essence of this episode in a way; how we came to business partners, what we decided to do in business and then the crazy year that we have seen this year in business together as a result.

We speak about how we set out first goal for the year, which we labelled as ‘1X’. Then, what triggered us to reset that goal to ‘3X’, which at the time was quite random and truly without foundation. Then, assuming the ‘in flight’ deals land in time, how we may well land at ‘7X’, all being well.

This takes us on a journey through selecting business partners, looking beyond roles and capital contributions. How to take care of one another in business, goal-setting, business development and business execution strategies to some extent too.

It’s been quite a year; some would say a game changing one. So, have a little listen and see what nuggets you can take away and apply into your own business; property or otherwise…

Property Chatter

Welcome to the property voice podcast helping you to navigate safely through the world of property investing. Get the lowdown and updates, insights and outcomes on all matters property with a splash of entertainment along the way, the property voice, a voice to trust among the crowd. Now, let’s get started with your host, Richard Brown.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the property voice podcast. My name is Richard Brown. And as always, it’s a pleasure to have you join me on the show today. Well, I’m in this sort of interesting in between period with the podcast at the moment, I’m just having conversations with some of my buddies, business and property buddies. It’s a select group, a small handful. And today I’m delighted to welcome Kim Egan to join me in conversation. Hi, Carrie, how you doing? Hey,

Richard, I’m good. Thank you. Thanks for the invite, and making me make the final cut of the tight group.

We were always going to be making the final you’re always going to do that. And you know that standard some consultation on a raised by sea.

Good to hear. I don’t know if you are not expecting an answer yes to this. But if you’ve heard of any other conversations, it’s been quite interesting. So far, meandering topics. It’s all unscripted. There’s no question. No pre-prepared questions or anything like that. We’ve gone off in different directions. Some of them have been quite amusing. Some of them have been quite ephemeral. Is that a word? Yes. Yeah. Kind of what word it means, but it means that sounds like a good word. Yeah, so let’s see where our conversation goes. Because I’ve got no idea.

All right, what could go wrong?

What could possibly go wrong? So I think what would be really useful is probably just the set the same with the listeners that they’ve heard us, you and I speak actually a few times, because you’ve been a guest on the podcast before. So about what be great is just to dial back a bit, because people ask us this question. We don’t always know the answer, do we? But how on earth did we get here? Where did it all begin? You probably got a better recollection anyway, that I have.

I mean, I don’t know that I do. I have a vague recollection of about seven years ago, must be now. I keep saying five. But I’ve said five for a few years. So it was about seven. And somehow we connected. And I think we had some conversations, I guess. And then quite liked what we had to say. And we, we then invite each other on our podcasts at the time, we think. And the conversation is never really stopped since then. We’re just on enough caught up. And sometimes it’s been longer periods of time and shorter periods. But every time we did catch up, it felt like nothing. It had been no distance I’ve in no time. And we were talking about whatever was going on at the time, the good, the bad, the somewhere in between. Think through that and just a really organic friendship through. That is 21. I tell quite funny, because on the face of it, we’re quite different people and in lots of ways we are different people. But we just have a thread that is the same. I think our core is the same. And how we go about things and do things are sometimes different. But yeah, I think that’s my reaction. I’m not sure how

much that be honest. I think so. Yeah, we did. Yeah, no, I think that’s pretty much it. I didn’t know it was a seven year itch by the way.

The next one now, we get the seven year itch in, you know, making it more committed. If you like, then what the traditional Seven Year Itch does? Yeah, no, I remember. I think we, I think we became friends. I think that first and foremost, you know, over that time, we share common values. And I think you talk about we’re different people and you know, our personalities can be different and how we do things, but our values are very much aligned. And I think that was what, that’s what always drew us together. I think ultimately, yeah, it was almost like yeah, I feel the same way about that too. And yeah, you know, let’s put the world to rights and things like that.

And sometimes particularly in our industries, you can feel quite lonely in that world. If you see things slightly differently or you don’t subscribe to the way things are discussed or talked about it can feel kind of that you’re out on an island by yourself. So when you find some like minded person you kind of hang on for dear life.

Well, thanks for hanging on buddy. Mike. I’m hanging on to so that’s cool. So and then I think I do remember, we thought, at one point, then you can maybe refresh my memory. We said, Okay, we’re, we’re becoming buddies or friends or whatever, we see the world the similar way. We’re both entrepreneurial in spirits, you know, seeking opportunities. And it’s like, Well, should we do something about this? You know, and we had a few conversations like that, didn’t we? And we had a couple of ideas, but didn’t kind of get off the ground big time. And then all of a sudden, it did.

I think that’s exactly it, isn’t it? We had some conversations, and I definitely didn’t go into those conversations looking for a way for us to work together, we were just chatting. And it’s all living or doing this or something or doing that. And, and it was kind of vice versa. And then we said all, you know, shall we do something together? And let’s see what comes out of it. And we had those initial conversations. And I think what’s really interesting is, but at the time, I think we knew they didn’t feel right. Because we could have run with them, we could have gotten them off the ground, but we both knew exactly how to do it. And that would work. And it would likely be a success. But something wasn’t aligned with at least where we were going, if not where we’ve been. And so we just kind of paused and talked a bit more, drank a bit more wine. So we had our kind of lightbulb moment that just from the off felt. Felt right.

Yeah. See, right. I think there’s there’s a point about flow there. Right. You know, is does it feel right? So there’s something that, you know, we can we are we could do this, and we probably could execute quite well. But for whatever reason, it wasn’t feeling right. And therefore, the energy wasn’t there, and therefore, the execution didn’t follow through or whatever. But what about this lightbulb moment, then what was? What was that lightbulb moment? Maybe I had too much wine? I can’t remember.

I don’t, I can’t entirely remember. I, so we talked about the things of being loved. I think we went back to the beginning was, you know, what is it love? What is it that gets us going? What? What excites us what interests us, and we kind of built out this picture of driven deals of, you know, negotiating of adding value of taking something ugly to something pretty have generational wealth of giving back, and our foundations. And some that I think we were founded at a price that we both previously had, and or deliberately or accidentally kind of flipped was isn’t turned around. And that was really fun, and challenging and tiring and frustrating, but fun. And it felt right. And I did differently. And I don’t know which one of us kind of went first. Then I who did the arm round the shoulders in the cinema moment. But I think we like to do want to does this. How does it sound? From memory? We were all over that from day one.

Yeah, just to clarify what that is, is that we’re talking about on a business acquisitions. Trail. Yeah. And m&a? Yeah. We also talked about certain types of property assets, or what we are larger scale property assets, like blocks and portfolios. So they were the two big ideas. I think that they did emerge at the beginning of this year one went better than the other one. In terms of, you know, actually, deliverables, although we’re still very much in it together. I think. So yeah. I don’t remember who’s around whose shoulder but you know, who made that first move. But yeah, it just felt right. And what’s happened since I mean, because that was kind of one we said, okay, let’s actually do something about this. Now. We stopped talking about it. Let’s get on with it. And that was probably from my memory round about the beginning of the year. Yes, yeah. Around about January, even February.

I want to say early Feb. Yeah. Yeah.

I’m feeling it’s probably more early Feb, because something else happened in February, didn’t it? Your fault, my fault. Okay. What, what was it? What happened? And I can elaborate, but what was your recollection? I just wanna make sure I get the right story, by the way.

Okay. So we, we had this idea and we were chatting about mergers and acquisitions and buying some businesses and turn them around and some of it as an adjunct to you know, current activities that would be useful to have this business it’d be useful to have that and some of it just plain fun. My background was healthcare and have one of the adult or adult allied health care professional profession. You know, some other things we just went for, how about we go When we can find a business that we like the look of that excite us, and we’ll turn them around and see if we can exit and get a capital event. And one evening, I was sat on the sofa, and I got a message from Richard saying, You need to listen to this, this thing from Darren Hardy. Do I though? Like, I don’t necessarily love everything. He’s got to say so cool. Okay. I think I was doing something else. I was like, Yeah, whatever. I’ll check it out with a couple of days. A couple days later, and rich get back to me said if you listen to the thing yet. And I had that moment we like, what could just say Yeah, buddy, no, no, hang on. It’s only three minutes, I think it was. So it’s fine. Or listen to this message. And it’s something he does there and does his daily dose of something, motivation, whatever. And he shared the story about how he started in a job, set a goal. And I think he spoke to a mentor, and it might have been his dad or someone in the business or something. And they said, you know, three extra goals. What why that goal? Why not bigger? Why not bigger than that? Why not anything? And, you know, in the story, he shared that he hit whatever his 10x target was, I think in the end. Was it just 3x? Yeah, it was. Yeah, so he said, this target, and then he 3x 3x the target, and then he hit that. So then he said, you know, some of the challenge with what people achieve is not that they don’t achieve this out to achieve, what they set out to achieve was too small. So whatever you got was three exit. Now, we only just kind of stopped having conversations in this. And we had very loose target kind of said, Okay, well, that’s okay, let’s give this a go. And at the time, it felt quite big, because we didn’t really have a strategy at that point, weren’t quite sure of a pipeline of a pipeline weren’t quite sure where or how we were going to do this. We’re quite busy. But it felt right. So we threw ourselves into it. So we threw at the goal that day, I think from memory, and I wrote it down, and I’ve still got it on a post it note on the inside of my notebook. And that became the foundation for what we marched off to do this year.

Absolutely. I think it’s Grant Cardone, isn’t it? Who does the techniques? Yeah, so maybe we should attend XSplit? Well, Freeletics has been pretty well, as well, here. It wasn’t actually free X in the end. We’ll get to that. But yeah, just wanted to that 10x 3x thing. So it was Darren Hardy specs. And then just to put it in perspective, we all we’ve done at that stage is let’s go and buy some businesses with agreed on that. Yeah, we didn’t really have a strong strategy, we didn’t weren’t really doing that much at that point to make it happen. Like I said, we didn’t have a pipeline. No. And then we suddenly three weeks ago, in middle of February or something, something like that. And just because and by the way, I’m looking at because on my whiteboard here, I’ve got another phrase from that video, which has been there since. And it’s sort of keep knocking out the words, it’s impossible unless question mark. And so that went hand in hand with the Okay, so you’re free as you go? Fine. But then accompanied by that phrase, it’s impossible unless makes you start thinking about the house. So he said, going home going over there. And by the way, it’s going to be a three times bigger mountain, when you go it’s impossible unless I get a helicopter to go to the top. Instead of climbing. It makes me think in a different way. But the two things together.

Let’s start off with having like a narrow minded set of I can’t do it because and in that moment, that’s true. Unless you add the on this in that moment, that’s true. You don’t have the time, the resources, the network, the best of that the whatever you want to tell yourself. But when you reposition that, I can’t do it. Unless so Okay, well, then I need to get the network. Okay, well, that’s impossible. Well, it’s impossible unless, and you take yourself down this tree, that kind of cascades and you can follow it all the way through to the end at some really specific and seemingly quite distant goals from your big goal. That if you do the do will get you there. That was a really interesting point, I thought,

yeah, and let’s be honest, really, really honest for a sec. Did you believe the 3x goal would happen when we said that? No Me too, right? We set it with no foundation, no structure, no strategy direction, no pipelines I mentioned. And then I think it’s the impossible unless came in. It’s like, okay, we’ve said in, we kind of don’t really believe it right now. Because why would you when you like six to eight weeks into the year and zero, and you’ve suddenly just three extra goal? boy crazy. We’ve never actually worked together at that point. Yeah. And we’re doing something, you know, you certainly knew. I mean, we both been involved in m&a, you know, or growing businesses, you know, to some greater or lesser extent. And it was just gonna throw our heart and soul into this. So there was that doubt. And I think it’s, it’s important to say that, yeah, absolutely. What made us push through that, from your point of view? What made it happen? What made the difference? I think for me, it was I wanted to do it. And

I’m pretty stubborn. And if I want to do something, it’s happening. So I don’t know,

by the way, everybody I can vouch for Kenny. And if he wants, if it’s gonna get done, and she wants to do it, it’s gonna happen, right?

Yeah. And it’s like I didn’t, you know, we didn’t know. But I’m pretty good at compartmentalizing as well. So I don’t know how it’s gonna happen. Didn’t really need to buy, I grew up in sport, that was kind of my, my background, and you just do the work, you do the work, and you turn up. And then on game day, if you’ve done most of the work, and you got a bit of talent, you’re probably going to win. So just did the work when we found some support. And we’re then some stuff and we surrounded ourselves with people that have the same goals. So I was like, Okay, we’re just gonna do that. And I don’t like losing either. So if you’re surrounded with people that are kind of setting targets and hitting it, then yeah, it just annoys me so so well, we’ve got a good quality that’s now because I’m not being the loser in the group.

And equally, I’m, I’m quite competitive. I mean, we It’s famous in our household, we have weekly backgammon games. I know that sounds really thrilling. But we I mean, my wife, we have a kind of a mini tournament every weekend. And honestly, it’s it’s, it’s, you know, it’s more between, she’s very competitive. She’s actually promoting ex professional sports player, as well. And I’m just bloody competitive. And so you know, we have these little rivalries, and we’re literally robbing the winner runs around the garden and celebrates and stuff like that. It’s, it’s that sights that. So I’m with you on that one. And it’s like, well, and equally, I think that you touched on earlier about our bigger vision and our internal visions, and, you know, the foundations, and not to mention that a couple of previous episodes here. So we’ve got something bigger than ourselves here as well. That’s a steak. I think that drives us. It certainly drives me. Yeah. So yeah, I think that, you know, that from my point of view, I was like, I, by the way, I really love it. I’m kind of addicted to doing deals, I suppose, getting to Daniel Hill would be last week, I think. And this goes out. And we were just saying that, you know, we swap messages all sorts of crazy times now. And it’s like, well, I said, I initially started by saying, I think I’m addicted to work. And he when I’m addicted to doing deals, and I said no, that’s actually better. I’m addicted to doing deals. Yeah. I love speaking to owners, whether it’s property owners or business owners, I love it. I could do loads of it. So that’s what I do. Because you find your best selves. And I think that we can talk about how we’ve evolved as the years go on, but just I don’t lose sight of this. So can take a lot of time. But how we got to start and set the goal and maybe how we got through it. But just from first point from that point where we three weeks ago, when did we complete our first deal? I think you knew to the day or something

I knew from when we first spoke to that person that we completed and that was 86 days I think and I think that was probably three or four weeks later than we spoke

Yeah, so we walked through the door in that business literally walked through the door when I had the key is on the first of June. Yeah. So and I think we’d 3x By the end of Feb. Yeah. So and we didn’t we weren’t speaking to that person when we three ext No. So that puts that in perspective. And by the way, we almost 3x that pointed me it is the

We were we have now we’ve when we took it over the historic results would be slightly less than 3x. But I think probably counting down to you as much as anything. The results are in excess of 3x already. Yeah. That first acquisition,

which is amazing. And it’s in and of itself. I mean, talk about kind of confirmation that you’re doing the right thing, and you’re on the right path, and you set the right goals. This thing came up in it certainly wasn’t an easy acquisition process. And I could absolutely live without that again. But we stuck with it. And again, when we started, so we’re finished now and then that stubborn nature and the competitiveness comes in. And yeah, we got over the line, and it almost exactly hit the 3x target that we tell ourselves.

Yeah. And just discard skip forward to kind of where we hope it’s going to land because this is middle of November. You know, I think there was one that fell away. So I think the final result is I think we’re on target for around about 7x by year end at the moment. Is that about right?

I think so. Yeah. Yeah,

I know, we’re talking in random terms, because we’re not disclosing what the target was, but doesn’t matter in a way whatever, whatever it was, was one. Yeah. And then we three exit and now we’re probably going to land hopefully touching wood, whatever. Around about 7x And that would be technically five, five acquisitions. Is that right? Yes. Including the tiller 12345 Yes, five, five completions in about seven hours initial goal. And so what a pace what a journey what a ride

in life in less than nine months, five completions. I mean, if you do have a first I think if you’d have told us about that to start with we’d have last year out of the room but we’ve absolutely been hand off someone said you can do this then it’s been believable. So much fun

has been I mean it’s been fun but it’s been I mean let’s not underestimate you know what there’s always a price to pay Okay, for the results there’s always a price to pay there’s a trade off and people sometimes what the upside but they’re not prepared to put the investment in all the payoff in so let’s just be honest about it. You know, it is great 7x And five acquisitions and been a fantastic ride but it’s been challenging at times, right? Yes,

absolutely. I am hanging watching the clock come down you know, I’m not one I don’t like to wind down to Christmas I think a lot of people do and that leaves the market open and these opportunities there whatever analysis or gerloff Eating mince pies we’ve talked I don’t eat mince pies those multitask so I don’t think to wind down and I was supposed to go away in November and just kind of said that I just don’t think we’ve got the time with what we’ve got going on just can’t do this so yeah, it’s been an in a long intense eight months probably have pretty relentless you know, and if we’re being honest I think our families have I want to say suffered because they benefit from what we’re doing but there’s a price to pay and that pay off at the moment is not always getting the time or the quality time with me like it’s been stressful at times. There are bits while we’re both doing things that we on the whole enjoy their bits that have sunk so yeah. Yeah, being entirely kind of runnable and transparent is the has been tough. But when I look at things in my life that have been tough, just kind of doesn’t cut it. This is like it’s hard work and a bit tired. Okay, lots of people are tired and work hard, and they won’t get the results that this will generate. So that’s okay, you can be tired and work hard because you’re doing something that you hate that doesn’t provide your family the way that you want or you can do something that’s hard that you aren’t how enjoy and we’ll pay of dividends.

Yeah, yeah, and put it in perspective. Obviously, I was watching my wife 40 Children in Need video clip. Yesterday, was probably doing the same as you were we might be look at this three minute Darren, Darren, Darren Hardy thing. Yeah, go to everyone to watch that video I did. And the clip was about, like, like a children’s play center or data center. In whole. And long story short, they did a snow, they built them a nice outdoor playground and facilities and stuff like that. And you kind of know how it’s going to go. So good deeds, and that was all fantastic. But then they were interviewing the one of the operators. And they were saying, basically, what difference does this place make to the local community, it’s fairly deprived area of whole I know how they, you know, from old, there are some pretty, you know, deprived as elements. And she said, Some people were this is a lifeline, you know, they, they can’t afford daycare, and they’ve got three jobs to survive single mothers, things like that, you know, they’ve got three jobs, and this is how they can do that. Yeah. And they’re working bloody hard. And, you know, and this is a little bit of respite support that they get. And the reward is minimum wage probably, or something like that. Yeah. We’re talking about something different. And we can’t overlook the fact that we’re privileged, you know, in insofar as the outcomes will be below the minimum wage. Yeah. But, you know, we, you know, we try and apply ourselves into something we’re in an equally let’s also face it, we’re not both doing this just so we can be have mansions and flashy cars, and, you know, all that stuff. We’re doing this for a wider and bigger cause, ultimately, now. So, you know, that’s, that’s one of the things that you why we work together, because we see the world that way. But it’s just about that. I think sometimes people look into your life, I’ve actually had someone comment on my life recently. And like, that’s interesting. Then they just made all these assumptions about my lifestyle and who I was, as a result of all this, I’m like, How can you make that conclusion don’t even know me? And we don’t know the detail. Yeah. And it’s, you know, you’re looking from an outsider’s point of view, but they didn’t look at the investment, the input, the sacrifice, you know, the bloody pressure. And all that stuff, you probably add to the list that goes with it. So we know that we’re probably going to be on for we joked about it every three to five years, or something like this. Maybe put our feet up. But we probably both know that ain’t gonna happen.

No chance. But it’s nice to think about it at the moment.

Well, when I say it’s going to happen, it probably will happen. But we just we can’t help ourselves, we’ll probably find the next level or the next big thing or whatever. Yeah, I don’t know this, but. And I think the other thing that I think is worth highlighting is, you know, how we kind of fit in together over the last six or eight months, nine months, whatever. Because that’s that painting, it’s worth sharing a little bit about that, maybe?

Yeah, it’s been really interesting, isn’t it? 20 people come together that are ultimately used to doing their own thing. It’s fitness to be kind of butting of heads and an ego war and everyone wants to be in charge. And it hasn’t been like that. There’s been some challenges, were sometimes seeing things differently. And our view of risk is different, or our view of people is sometimes different. But or not. Because our values, and core is so aligned, that you can always bring it back, you can bring it back to friendship, you can bring it back to what matters, you can bring it back to what’s important. And none of that shit is it just doesn’t matter. And so we found this groove, were largely your is FD.

From what? Sorry? FD? Oh, FD okay. Yeah, that’d be a finance guy type of thing. Yeah. Yeah.

And then I’m kind of on the opposite side. Man, it’s just working really well. And we, I think the militia some conversations about what we liked, and what we’re good at, and what we thought we can bring, when we kind of pick those bits out, and then you’re left with this melee of stuff in the middle. Okay, all of that bit, and you can, and we worked our way through the rest of it. So again, you know, to be completely transparent, there are bits that we’re both looking forward to handing off sooner rather than later, but we were prepared to do what it took to get us there in the first place. So that’s kind of how we, we divide the roles at the moment and it’s, again, it’s given while it’s nice, it’s always simple, but it’s effective at least. And I think with every month that goes by and every deal that goes by we communicate better. We figure out how to work together better. We figure out what is did they mean? And then there’s hope because now we work together misspeak day in day out you’re like No, even though that’s what that said that isn’t how it would have been meant because I know the person. And it’s Yeah, I think I feel like I’m just repeating myself. But this friendship cornice values core just keeps us on the straight and narrow. And the answer the question to kind of almost anything challenging is what’s the right thing. Maybe had a situation recently, a team member has decided to come on the journey with us. And according to the contract, when we bought this business, they shouldn’t be able to go and work in certain other places. But we had a chat and just said that you think it’s right, that we will let them do this. And we kind of negate that bit of the contracts. We think it’s right. And it’s fair. Either there isn’t a business risk. Let’s just do the right thing. And that has stood us in good sensors in good stead. I think.

I agree. And I think just to summarize, I think what we’ve kind of learned and we thought we made this promise to each other that we are at one key point, you don’t know what I’m going to say. We will always put our friendship above a deal, though. And I think he got fraught in that first deal at times, because he’s stressed and we didn’t know in doing at the time, you know, and it was it was difficult. It was a difficult negotiation. It was complex, and the advisors weren’t necessarily helping and things like that. There was some pressure points, and we won’t go into too much. But basically, it was, you know, stressful at times, we were working with pulling weekenders, you know, Easter weekend was gone. And remember, we do diligence and things like that. And you know, we’re probably getting a bit each year each other and stuff. And I think there were times where I recognized for example, I was very drew deal driven and not as much on relationship, you know. And afterwards, we kind of had the little we got the deal. We celebrated a bunch of champagne. And then about a few weeks later we then we had like debrief and then we just had a real chat about you know, what happened at this point? And how can we learn from that? And how can we do things differently, and just really hearing one another. And we made a promise that we would always put our friendship above any deal. And so that’s and the friendship comes with that shared values? So do you see every single thing? That’s exactly the same way? No, not no. But do we are we very closely aligned or most of the stuff? Yeah. And you know, I think it’s mutual respect, as well, and understanding and where to learn to give up things. You know, you’re you’re an entrepreneur, and I’m busy. I’m an entrepreneur, whatever language want to use, but you know, running businesses running around shows, we used to be in the king or queen, what are you going to call it? And then we have to give some of that up. And then that’s his ego. And there’s all that stuff that gets in the way. So I thought that was really interesting how we learnt fit together. And then you know, obviously, as you say, it’s getting better and better each deal or week, as you say goes by.

I remember that bank holiday weekend detail because that was we’re already quite a long way in. Some bits hadn’t quite gone, the way we would have liked when we received some information late I think from memory, we just had to get through this by a deadline. Now, those moments when I don’t I don’t know that I’ve even asked you, but I’m sure it was the same. You’re you have to get your family on board. I’ve got a young family, Easter weekend should have been full of fun and frolics and whatever else. And I was I just I can’t do it. And it wasn’t, you know, I need to do an hour in the morning. It was doing this for probably 18 hours for the next four days. So I’m sorry, and amuse yourselves. And you know, it doesn’t always go down very well. Or it goes down very, very, very badly. And again, you’ve got to try and manage that relationship and have a conversation with yourself that is this worth it. Is it the right thing? Is it right for my family even if it’s right for me? Should I be doing this? And those horrible internal chats you have to have with yourself. And I think in hindsight, I’m glad I’m very, very glad we did to do but I think we both agreed that we just wouldn’t, wouldn’t let it be like that again. And that took some learnings from that project to set our own expectations and push back on some things. And actually, no, you can’t wait a period of time get something than think we’re going to drop everything as we’re prepared to do what it takes, but not whatever it takes. Because there are other people in our lives and other things that are just as important. And we can’t do anything if we’re burnt out and sick and broken. Which we weren’t miles away from the transaction.

Absolutely. Yeah, I remember one. You know, one, Sunday, it was in the middle of that bank holiday weekend. Now she’s in the office, just dawn till dusk, you know, and just cracking out things. There’s something that I realized is like, what is everybody want to deliver the information to you on a Friday? There’s notice that right, they always deliver your stuff on a Friday. So over to you now. Yeah, we have an answer on Monday or something stupid. But they probably don’t quite say that way. But I think we learned need to buy at least a week, you know, turn around, and we’re not necessarily going to touch this the weekend. And there’s, there’s a very good reason. Yeah. So that was another learning. So we have learned some things. And here’s the thing as well, I want to talk about, you know, and by the way, if you want to talk about any other bits are missing. But I also want to talk about celebrating the wins, the little wins. So got anything to say about that.

Yeah, so turns out rich got real drinking problem many times. And it’s not even that he can have a drink. I just, we, we knew what we’re getting ourselves into. And we knew quite what it would take. And we also knew ourselves because we are so target driven and goal driven and success driven. In whatever mean, six by success means to individually, it doesn’t, it’s not necessarily a fixed definition. But we don’t often or ever stop and celebrate what we’ve done and what we’ve achieved in how far you came. Because it’s like, well, you know, we did this, but what if that happens, or what if this happens, but we haven’t done that yet. And you can’t operate like that, you have to celebrate the wins, you’ve got to give yourself a pat on the back. And you’ve got to reward yourself for what you did in the meantime. So yeah, we set ourselves some little, little times that we’d win, celebrate your wins. So we celebrate the honor for exempted, celebrate, if we got heads of term signed, we’d celebrate if we completed, we’d celebrate if we completed and managed to not get divorced. We do all of these things that we just have a little well done, very well done. That was a shift. That was you know, a lot of work. And we did it so well done. And they really good points to kind of decompress and give yourself a little and just reflect right how far you came how many bits you didn’t necessarily know. But you know, enough people bid on these businesses, you know that there was enough interest. So even if you get your offer accepted, that all falls over later. You did the right stuff there. And that should be celebrated.

Oh, totally. I mean, you know, I think it’s about you know, it’s a cliche to say it’s about the journey, not the destination. And you stop off at different points along the way. Menu, you’re trying to enjoy the journey as much as the destination. So I think it’s something we’ve tried to breed just because alcohol is involved. Sometimes it’s you know, it makes it maybe it colors, our view a little bit of those stop off points. But I do remember sometimes, you know, I’ve been we’ve been talking, I can’t even remember which milestone we’ve been celebrating. But for literally just being I’ve been sat in the garden and the sun’s gone down, it’s gone pitch black and hours has passed and we’ve just been chatting away. You think I want to patient a whole bottle of champagne did go down by the way. So I’m probably wasn’t making a lot of sense at the end of the conversation. So thanks for sticking with me.

Obviously, oh, he was stone cold sober, say that’s not something I would ever do.

It is kind of legendary, though, that I am the lightweight and kameez. You know, I’m not going to say too much but not as lightweight as being a professional, professionally.

So it comes back from being the athlete. Yeah. I think celebrating those wins is important. And doing the right thing as you say. You know, recently I was always very reluctant to talk about, for example, my foundation and where I go, I’m talking about a bit more now and I’m a little still a little bit hesitant. Maybe you actually pushed me Do you remember when we went out to Nottingham, and I kind of touched on it? And you went, you basically pushed me off the edge of the plank and said do you want to share a little bit more about that Richard? In front of a roomful of people. So that kind of got me Thanks, Carrie. Just talk A little bit about Of course, it was I wasn’t prepared. It wasn’t scripted. It just came from the heart. And people that I know you’ve had the same. And people came up, bless you to both of us, didn’t they? Because you did you also shared, it made me go first, but you also shared, and people cannot just go and that was so inspiring. Or Thank you for saying that, or this really gives meaning to what we’re doing and new sorts of things. And it really made me realize, actually, maybe it was a personal, each of us have this personal vision, but actually people can buy into that, and want to be part of that journey. So yeah, that was pretty good. That’s pretty cool. It’s really a sin as

an expert, I think it feeds back into what you said earlier about people will make assumptions about who you are, or how you are and how you do business. And in most cases, I think if people spoke to either of us for any length of time, they were realized, actually, were possibly, possibly completely different to their expectations. Because the industries or the things we talked about are one thing, but actually, what drives us both or gets us out of bed, what matters is a completely different. But I know for sure that I’m not necessarily the most comfortable with sharing kind of runnable stuff and things and I’m not a huge crowds person. So a lot of time it takes a one to one conversation or the right environment to have this stuff. And then you see people go, Oh, and kind of something changes in their mind. And they become really excited to come on the journey with you because it’s about more than x y Zed. It’s about this thing and what Mark You can believe what difference you can make. And that will forever be forever be amazing to me. True. Great. Yeah, by the way, you wearing a boot protective boot. So remember you you’re having to sit down most of the time because you couldn’t put weights could you on your on your ankle. As I was stood up, you were there when you’re on this wheelchair thing, it was quite as quite a sight to behold. You know, all those brothers come on chuckle brothers.

Yeah, probably. So that that probably creates a different expectation. If you’ve ever been to these corporate sort of vision day thing is, didn’t

we, ourselves, right? We were true possible sort of ganache is it? It’s um, what am I going to authentically go. But we just asked. So we really want y’all to buy into this. And it, it matters to us that you know why it matters to us. I’m always really interested in I thought was that it created a bit of a divide. There were some people that had no interest in buying into anything. And then some people that were all over it, and then of course, I’m in the middle. Yeah, the, the ones that didn’t want to come along on that journey that didn’t want to see the bigger picture didn’t stick around for very long in that session.

That’s true. It does become divisive. We talked about vision values and culture. You know, and not just what our values and culture were but what you know already existed, of course, and trying to merge and a new curve a way forward that were blended all of those elements. And yeah, I don’t think everybody saw it the same way. So I think you know, that’s okay. It’s absolutely okay. Yeah, no, no no needs to fall out about a dirty crate or war. Sometimes tribalism you know, whatever you call it. There’s a lot of opposition these days social media fuels etc but doesn’t have to be that way. So okay, I’m this is how we see the world when I see it differently. Okay, I wish you all the best with your way. Yeah, we’re still going away

some of those images isn’t you know, you have like the old ladies and the candlesticks or you have a rabbit and a fox or something. And so what do you see? I see to our ladies, what do you see? I see a candlestick. Both people are right, but both see something very different.

Sorry, I thought you’re gonna talk about an ink block test or something?

No. I think the world in the media particularly would do well to remember that it isn’t black or white names perfectly great. We can all feel a bit. Not everything has to be angry.

You know, we can coexist even if we see the world different. Right. So, yeah, we’re on a different journey. Yeah, that’s good. Now, we talked a bit about the beginning, at the beginning about the 1x 3x. landing at 7x. Hopefully, yeah. The year end we’ll have you’re gonna have a busy month of December by the look of it. Yeah, start starting now. Started a few weeks ago, actually. But So assuming that all goes, Well, what did we say? We’re going to do next year? Who remember? I know you remember. These? Remember?

Now I see it the goal? 3x? Again? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we got a 3x. Again,

we’re gonna 3x where we land?

No, no, no problem.

No worries. But um, so just to put them in, we’re talking in arbitrary terms, so 1x 3x 7x, but it doesn’t matter what the goal was 1,000,010 million, you know, just multiply by the x. So if we land at 7x, what we’ve said is, wherever we land, we’re going to three exit for 2022, which would therefore be 21x. By the end of 2022. Now, just cast your mind back to the conversation we had in February, where we were breaking it about what eggs? Yeah. So and, you know, are we any different? I mean, we are that’s, that’s actually, yeah, but we

were the same people. But I think we have both grown I think we’re both better at some things. It’s I think it’s added kind of skill sets to our armory is added different elements to us. I think we’re probably more.

Yeah. Well, well rounded or

further rounded. Because we just had to learn some stuff, we have to go on these journeys. So I think we are different, but fundamentally with the same.

Yeah, I think our personalities and our characters are the same. You know, we change our lifestyle. I match either, no, but I think we’ve grown. Definitely. And we’re having conversations now. I mean, just before I came on this call not that half an hour before I came on this call, I’m having a conversation with someone who could potentially help us set up a 14 million pound fund, and how that can work. And I was like, Well, when we want x, it wasn’t 14 million, by the way. So we’re like that was not really in in concept. It wasn’t relevant. It wasn’t. Why would you even talk about something like that, but today, it’s extremely relevant. And, you know, possibly necessary

when a fetus is impossible, unless doesn’t it? There you go. 21x is going to take a bigger game plan and playing a bigger game.

Yeah, I think that’s it, you know, thinking bigger, breaking through the glass ceilings, stretching the boundaries. Obviously, if you don’t overstretching snap, that’s no promise we’ve made to one another is which one watch out for one another, and, you know, you will kind of go, Richie, okay, I’m not getting the right vibes today or this week, or whatever. And I’ll do the same with you and just look out for one another. So we’ve got to take care. I think I said recently, take care of the vessel. Yeah, you know, take care of each other. And that, you know, there’s the self compassion and self care part of it. And then there’s the growth, you know, part of it and the mindset shift again, another paradigm shift another level. Yeah. You said you can’t go on another level, there isn’t another level. And then

I think two things were really important about what you just said, First up, is that self care thing and because we’ve kind of both come from normal working class backgrounds, right? If you said to people in your family or needs prioritize self care, they might feel like the room only sought me out the room they decide I’ve gone to Gwyneth Paltrow on them or something. I lost my mind. But it’s not an it’s not an option. It’s not a choice. It’s absolutely necessary to keep playing the higher game to keep pushing to keep delivering. You have to take care of yourself. Otherwise you haven’t got anything to get fits. You know the goose and the golden egg thing, isn’t it? You just you can’t part at some point you just you just run out of energy. You’re not steam you run out something and then again from a completely isolate is a bit of a rough one for me. One had a rubbish night say everyone had a rubbish night. It’s been a bit Is he 10 days or so I’m going to finish this call, probably gonna lie down for a little bit, just have a minute and then go again this evening. So I thought was really interesting, and how you change when you change your environment in your circle when you’ve got a mindset change, which feeds into the other thing about our focus what we’re trying to do, and we had a chat might have been yesterday, I hope you don’t mind me saying this. But we both had some opportunities in the last few days or week to get involved in some projects. And we said no, because they weren’t aligned with what we’re trying to achieve. The net gain wasn’t enough to take our attention or focus away. And it was just a real kind of a moment when we clocked that, again, something has shifted, they’ve been another growth another layer, that we were playing a bigger game. That was really interesting. I thought,

yeah, no, no, don’t want you saying it. And you know, very well said too. And, you know, thanks for sharing that. Yeah, I mean, probably a year ago, we were both presented with some opportunity, then I had some say dollar signs, pound signs, whatever attached to it. And we probably got some of that. Today, I’m not I don’t want to make it sound wrong, but we’re just on a different Dziedzic Cergy actory, flying off from a different flight path. And, you know, he isn’t necessarily feeding that and, you know, looks about you know, what is the value of our time now, it’s different. It’s not, we’re not being snobbery, snobs or anything like that. It’s just, if you’re talking about potentially a 21x, you know, you’ve kind of ratcheted up and you just have to see a difference. Yeah, you write about the self care things? Probably not, you know, and, you know, a guy talking about self care. Yeah. You know, it’s a little bit you know, it’s not, it’s not a typical stereotype, self compassion, self care, but we need to be good to ourselves. I didn’t put handles on in the bath and stuff like that. But you know,

you should get it going, I highly recommend

secretly of Mrs. Put something on her might be there, you know, having a little wear for something, but maybe that doesn’t sound good. Maybe rephrase that, whatever images in your head, but I have my stuff, you know, I don’t, you know, I’ll have my Friday night, put some beats on and, you know, I’ll have an IPA or something, or five, and just chill getting to, you know, have been known to actually put some moves, you know, that’s all coming out now, people is really different. So, you know, that’s kind of one way I’ve lost some steam. And, you know, forget it. I think it was last night, or yesterday was a really busy day. I started working at 6am by 8pm. I still go in until I was done. I had there’s always something else to do, by the way. But I just said, That’s it. I’m done. I went downstairs and just chilled. came into my head are probably should have done that bit. But now, I’m definitely switching off now. Self Compassion and self care. Maybe not textbook because I’ve done a 14 hour day.

Because a few months back, you might have just kept going.

Oh, probably. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, there’s some good learnings. So I guess, you know, what about just thinking about maybe towards the end of our conversation that we’re sharing here? You know, there’s anything else you want to talk about? Or ask or whatever, before we finish and share with the audience as we’re being so intimate and vulnerable? Reel? That’s a good question. Um, I do want to know why. You’d like to know why I didn’t do the extra task that you needed yesterday.

Yeah. And that’s made my day really quite difficult. So if you could want to know why we, from your perspective, when you made this decision, and you said, You know what, we’re going to do this for Kim. Why

did I make that decision from my point of view? I mean, the short answer is it felt right. It felt right. So I mean, an elaborate but it just felt right. You know, and like you said, we talked about things, and it didn’t feel right, you know, about a couple of things we could potentially do together and we have known each other for a reasonable period of time. The ironic thing is we’ve not actually met in person until fairly recently. It was kind of that was on a crazy one. So we just kind of built this sounds like a bloody episode of catfish or something. I don’t know. You know, whatever. I don’t know what else is out there. But I do actually, my daughter got me into some of this reality TV recently, so I can’t

want you blame on your daughter?

I am definitely it would I wouldn’t do it. I wasn’t, you know, I wasn’t interested at all. I was just literally doing it to bond with my daughter, of course, because but no, I think it just felt right. And but if you dig deeper, why did it feel right? You know, I can answer that, you know, we do have the shared values, we do have common vision. I recognize I can’t do everything on my own. And I think you possibly recognize you either didn’t want to even if you could do on your own times, we just knew we could do it. Even though we didn’t believe we could baby three exit or anything like that. We just knew we could do it when you were fairly capable. And when you were where this could take us because you probably I had that burning desire in my stomach, he wouldn’t want to leave me alone for about two decades. This foundation idea whatever it’s called, won’t leave me alone. That’s a good sign that it’s part of your purpose. Yeah, just felt right to do it. Do it with you. And I think you know, I don’t I don’t think I’ll give a better answer than that. Maybe when I hear your answer, maybe I’ll go Oh, yeah. You know?

What’s your nice? My answer is? Yeah, the same. It’s fairly non eventful. It just, it just felt right. We’d spoken about lots of things. And we’ve spoken about families and friends and kids and the weather and anything and everything in between. And there aren’t many times in your life you meet someone, you can just say, in their balls this up. And Huff Yeah, I needed him to, or, and it won’t be kind of thrown back at you or whatever. Or you can just say, you know, I’m struggling, this is happening and I and I can’t fix it. And even if they want me to fix it, I’ll try. I just want to be able to say this is tough. And I could do that. I said, you know she had to orange thing, that’s probably not the place to go into it. But we have some mental health challenges in my family, and sometimes they’ve flare up and things like that. And I think we have one call. And that’s probably a couple of hours of me just saying, I don’t know, I don’t know what to do. I think I’ve done the best I can. I’ve done everything I know. And it hasn’t worked. So why have you got? Have you got anything? Or can you just listen to me for a bit. And you were kind of generous and thoughtful, and you kept the confidence in you. You were just a good a good man. And if I was going to do this journey with anyone, that’s tick box number one.

So much better answers online for a start button. Thank you for that. And you know, it goes both ways to be honest, you know, not just coming back at you because it’s a return of a compliment and whatever. But just this week, I think it was Monday, you have a Mondays are just Mondays. Right? We just we’ve been notorious now for us, when you have a heavy schedule. And I do remember, you know, I was probably flipping around that you should talking about. And you know, I kind of just was needed to blow some steam or talk about something and some of it was personal family related. And you were just there and I realized that we were on the phone for about an hour and 15 minutes during the day on a busy Monday. And I just turned into us at all, I’m just conscious you probably might be putting some people office don’t worry about it. I’ve just been doing it in the background and in literally putting off one to one calls meetings and you’re just there, you know, listening to me. And you know, that is day’s worth more than any deal basically. Because more than anything because you mostly just listening sometimes offering you know, sensible important for give me a slap around the chops or something like that, but and you know, an hour 15 minutes on a busy Monday you made the time. And so I think it just goes to show that we can you know we do that for one another, but that’s a really good basis. So if anyone’s thinking about working with someone, you know, can you have those conversations? Do you share values? Can you figure out when those friction moments come? Can you like go into the directions Just stick together. And you care for one another really, fundamentally that so much so that you’ll put that relationship or head off the thing? Yeah. Yeah, so Good point, better answer the main

questions for me.

I should have thought that before thinking that you’re going to bring it back to me. And questions for you. I’ve asked, no summers have been going along. I’m Phil, I should have one now. But I guess it Yeah. Okay. I’ll put it this way. If you could have changed anything, what would you have changed this year? I left it vague. So you could choose

to change anything? What will?

Okay, maybe that’s making it to Vegas, you’re gonna say, Oh, I could have been a queen or something, you know, where you are. But this year, let’s say and what we’ve been through and whatever.

Changes are not the same. All right, change. The real, it’s a cliche answer. And it’s gonna sound like nonsense, but it’s nothing. And it’s because not because everything was perfect. And I really enjoyed every minute. I think we established that it’s not true. But I think I learned this year,

what

what I was prepared to do and what I wasn’t and what was important. And sometimes those lines have to get blurred. They do mean you have to go, crap. Okay, I’m sorry, we’ll do something nice tomorrow. And I know that I said, I’d be half an hour and I’m an hour and I’m in the doghouse and all of those things. But I’ve, I’ve learned that I have this goal. It’s a huge, huge, big goal. But it doesn’t have a number on it. Because I kind of want to see how far I can go. Don’t know it’s big. But I also know that if that takes me an extra five years, that’s okay. If I haven’t burned everything, and everyone along the way, I get to where I want to go, I want it with the people I love when my friends and everyone else around me. And so one prepared to do what it takes. I’m not prepared to do whatever. And I think that’s why I wouldn’t change anything. But that’s my biggest learning of this year.

Pre empting you may be asking me the same question. Of course. Yeah. Okay, thought so, I was waiting to see if you would, yeah, similarly, you know, it because you, you know, we go through what we go through for a reason, and we grow as a result of it. And even if the experience isn’t the best team, if we messed up, you know, we, if we wished it would be different. We did it, you know, perfectly first time we wouldn’t actually learn and grow. So what you, I wouldn’t change it for that reason. But I guess, probably for me, because, you know, I’m a different age to you, which we joke about now. And again. And, you know, I just kind of wish I’d have realized some of these things sooner. And, you know, started my journey sooner. Overall, I mean, honestly, I’ve gotten back a bit there. But I think that’s bringing it back to this year. Specifically, I said, the next level, there’s multiple levels. There’s multiple levels, and are kind of, you know, breaking through one at a time, perhaps, and I’m reading a book I’ve read just finished a book called The Big Leap. And that’s about jumping levels. It’s not about you know, this was just one step at a time type of thing. It’s like, he’s taken the helicopter to the top of the mountain type of thing. So that’s one thing. And I think the other thing on a real personal level. So I’ve got the idea of this foundation, whether it’s actually a foundation, I haven’t decided yet, but just keep it that for now. And then thinking about, I really want my kids involved. Ideally, they may not want to be let so that’s up to them. So certainly talking to them. And it talks about what the foundation kind of stood for. And, and then they started offering other things. And I hadn’t had that conversation with them before then. And they started offering other things. And I’m thinking it’s not just about me and what I want, you know, especially talk about multi generational, and this is giving back into society, communities, wherever, and why shouldn’t it be about things they’re interested in and passionate about and care about as much as things I care about? And that was a real game changing moment, because I was calling it my working title for the foundations to help foundation and helps, you know, helps me remember what what is you know, but all of a sudden, I had this sort of alphabet soup of causes. Why couldn’t it also, I mean, you hear what I say what I add Animals, environment, culture. Were some of the things that came out from those conversations moving. Well, they weren’t they on the list in the first place. Yeah, you can’t necessarily fix everything. But why not? And you know, and I think that could be a great way to engage my kids in this thing. And instead of our we’re buying a dad’s vision, it’s, this is our vision, our shared vision. So again, it’s more of a learning. You know, if I could have wished I would have realized that sooner. But you know, that’s something that I would say, I’m learning to forgive myself a bit more. You know, kind of mess up sometimes sometimes made some mistakes, could have done some things differently. Everybody does. Yeah. Just forgive yourself. Learn the lesson. Move on. Yeah. That was my awesome.

That’s very cool. Thanks for sharing that. I’ve got one more question, then I’ll stop grilling. It’s on your big leap book. Given the 7x, our original goal, decided to 3x. Again, is three it’s actually an appropriate goal.

You know, the answer. I think I’m gonna leave on a cliffhanger. So watch this space. Someone yesterday, we’re running an accountability group, as someone on the call flashed up their pipeline. And I, you know, obviously, these are the 15 deals, I’m working on Erman sort of thing. And I just did a quick bit of mental arithmetic. There wasn’t a total, but there was well over 100 million on his pipeline. I’m thinking okay, why not? Ace impossible on this? Yeah. So I’m going to leave it that’s my answer. It’s impossible a lesson. Maybe we’ll have a proper board meeting where we actually set that but what would you say?

The same? Unless, I think it’s possible unless, but we’re making the unless moves already. So we’ll see.

Carrie, it’s been a pleasure. Thanks for joining me and just having a conversation in front of a lot of people, which fortunately for you can’t see because I know you prefer not crowds, which is talking to me and sharing some of what we’re sharing. Hopefully, that’s helpful to our listeners. I’ll do the outro unless there’s anything you wanted to say beforehand.

No, thank you for the invite. Thanks for having me. It’s always good to get a conversation with you with everything we’ve got going on. We don’t necessarily waste a lot of conversations. So I’ve really enjoyed this. Thank you. Oh, good to have

a love to have conversations with business owners. So very, includes you. Anyway, it’s been great. Thank you. So thanks, everybody for listening once again this week to the property boys podcast, the show notes going to be over the website the property voice.net Don’t talk to me, you can reach out or perhaps even if you want introduction to Kenny podcast, the property boys dotnet. And the I think that’s about it for now. Thanks for listening. Speak to and

thank you for listening today. Now head over to theproperty voice.net. For more inspirational content and get updates through our mailing list. Join us next time on the property voice podcast and if you enjoyed the show, please don’t forget to rate us on iTunes.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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