Putting the Human in Human Resources

Quintessentially Mental: The Podcast

Transcript

SureEyes: [00:00:00] you're listening to quintessentially mental a podcast hosted by SureEyes, please note that this host is not a mental health practitioner or professional, and this podcast is not made for treatment of any mental illness.

[00:00:24] Spudcaster: [00:00:24] baobulb.org is a podcasting platform and a medium for storytelling. This podcast is also available on all the major podcasting apps, including apple and Google podcasts, podcast your life with baobulb.org

[00:00:42] SureEyes: [00:00:42] This is quintessentially mental the podcast. And I'm your host SureEyes. Hey y'all Hey darlings. How you doing? How's this week been, I think, you know, every week, reflecting on the week's episode that I'd like to share with you guys. I kind of think about things that are really close to my heart, that's close to my level of experience.

[00:01:07] I do think that I shouldn't do the consulting thing and talk about shit that I don't know. I should talk from a place of knowledge and a place of experience. Um, as you know, my mental health journey has been, you know, you can't kind of keep your, your issues at the door. You can't, you know, you can't just pretend that

[00:01:29] what's going on with you emotionally and mentally and psychologically, it doesn't exist all of a sudden because you're at work. Um, and so, you know, my, my interactions with people in the HR profession in places I've worked has been quite strained because I always felt like you can't really show who you are, especially from a mental health perspective in a work environment, especially not to an HR professional, because then you think, am I going to get a disciplinary hearing?

[00:02:04] Am I going to get a warning later? Am I going to, you know, have opportunities pass me by because I don't have. Um, I don't know that I might be viewed as incompetent or, um, you know, not capable. Um, and so I, I haven't always had very genuine relationships with HR professionals in the context that I've worked in, especially when it came to my mental health.

[00:02:33] It was only in recent years. Where I kind of didn't see it as, you know, stopped judging myself and so felt more comfortable to be open with my HR colleagues. So what I thought for today's episode, I may invite a dear friend of mine. Her name is Leighzanne. Um, we call her Leigh um, she is an HR professional. We've known each other for years.

[00:03:01] We were basically friends from the time we were in our respective in our mother's wombs. I was going to say that we were in each other's wounds imagine, but, um, she's joining me for today's episode. You know, our parents go way back. Um, we've we, we know each other quite intimately in terms of, you know, having been friends for basically our whole lives.

[00:03:26] Um, and she's an HR professional, so I thought, okay, let me have this conversation with her. Um, and also see if she brings herself to the table when she works as an HR professional. So, Hey Leigh, how are you doing?

[00:03:43] Leigh Hartley: [00:03:43] Thank you so much for having me. I'm good and you. I'm good. I'm good.

[00:03:47] SureEyes: [00:03:47] I'm good. Thanks for being open to this experience.

[00:03:50] I know you're not you're you still asked me how honest can I be? And I was like jo, bra let it rip. Yeah.

[00:04:00] Leigh Hartley: [00:04:00] Well, we'll have to see how the train of thought goes today, but yeah, I'll try my best.

[00:04:06] SureEyes: [00:04:06] So, so Lee, I guess as an, as like an opening. Kind of segue into the conversation as just, you know, an opener. Would you say that you're someone who is aware of, or has challenges with your own like mental health or mental wellness?

[00:04:28] Leigh Hartley: [00:04:28] So, you know, I think if you really speak to numerous people all over the place, I think that everybody, at some point in their lives has, um, issues with mental health and mental wellness. Um, some people, I think that journey is a little bit longer than others. Um, but I think that it is something that is part of every single one of us.

[00:04:47] You know, our constructs and who we are as people. Um, and in terms of myself, I think that my journey hasn't been very long, but I have had instances where I've struggled. Um, we I've had issues where I've had to also just take a step back and be like, okay, how am I feeling about things? How am I doing mentally?

[00:05:08] What do I need to do for myself in order to make sure that I am still okay.

[00:05:13] SureEyes: [00:05:13] I think you raise an important point, right? I think this idea mental health or mental wellness only affects people who've been formally diagnosed. Is false, right. So like I'm someone who's been formally diagnosed. I see a psychiatrist.

[00:05:29] I see. There's also a therapist. Um, which is why I don't see a psychologist. I've been hospitalised a few times, but like I'm in the category of you have an official diagnosis, you are being medically treated like. And so people think, unless you, in that category, mental wellness or mental health doesn't affect you, but like,

[00:05:54] So like, what would you say, you know, have been those challenges, if you are open to talking about it, like you don't have to, if you don't want to. Um, but I know when I speak to some of my friends, you know, it's very much around anxiety, depression. Like those are very much the common factors of things that, you know, people struggle with as an ordinary human experience, you know?

[00:06:20] Leigh Hartley: [00:06:20] Right. Yeah. So, I mean, I think for myself, SureEyes: you were like

[00:06:28] thanks for making me open this can of worms. Leigh Hartley: Look, I haven't paid for therapy recently, so maybe this is the opportunity. I'm not sure. Um, but yeah, I think that, you know, especially in the times that we're living in at the moment, I think that we're all dealing with a lot of stress, a lot of pressure. Anxiety around our jobs, anxiety around our families, anxiety about health in general and our mental health.

[00:06:54] Um, and definitely for myself. I mean, I think I, I have definitely had my struggles, I think probably, uh, over the last maybe six or so years, I've actively noticed it and marked it as, okay. Well, you know, there's a little bit of anxiety coming through your, you have some stuff that you were dealing with in terms of depression.

[00:07:14] So, yeah, I've definitely been on that journey. I mean, a while back, I was also on some antidepressants, not at the moment, but I have gone down that road before and had that journey as well as an individual. So, I mean, I think, you know, we have this joke that it's like, everybody seems to be on anti depressants nowadays, and it's not something to laugh about, but it's.

[00:07:36] You know, it makes us think about where is everybody in terms of a mental health space? Like, are we doing okay? Um, is it just that people are a lot more open to speaking about these things that we know what everybody else is going through? Um, but yeah, I mean, As I say, we all have that time in our lives where we feel like we are not managing and we're not able to cope that we're not able to deal with work, that we are also feeling anxious.

[00:08:00] And I mean, I'm speaking both from a personal perspective and from an employee perspective as well. I feel the same way in my job too. So. You know, earlier you spoke about, you know, the strained relationship between yourself and HR. And I think it's because we still very much, you know, in the working space where we have to put up a front that, you know, no matter what's going on in our lives, we can deal with it.

[00:08:24] We can still perform, it's not going to affect anything. And that's kind of the expectation we hold each other to, but it's an unrealistic expectation because I mean, we're all human and we're all going through things. So I think it's really about finding that middle ground about being like. How do I bring this human side of myself to work, but at the same time, still deliver on the expectations that are waiting for me within the work context,

[00:08:51] SureEyes: [00:08:51] But this is the thing right so I think you raised an important point. I think you've raised this whole, the two things, the whole putting up a front so like, yada, yada, I'm going through this thing. That's actually really stressful in my life, but don't worry. I'll still deliver. Right. But then in the same breath, you're saying y'all bring your whole self and as long as you can still deliver.

[00:09:12] Yeah. You know, and I think that in itself, like how, how comfortable, you know, at the same time they think do, do you have the honest conversation and say, yo. I'm actually going through a serious life crisis, whatever that might be, whether it's a breakup stroke divorce, or maybe, you know, I'm just having some family issues or whatever it is, right.

[00:09:39] Like there's something that is de-stabilising me and is, uh, is, is going to affect my delivery. Do you then say, okay, shap, I'll take some time off work. And then, you know, is there that risk that you, that you, the person with issues and can’t be trusted on projects, you know, or like, You know what I mean? Like I think it's, I think it's so tricky because at the end of the day we, we work.

[00:10:08] Yes. We can like our jobs and love our jobs, but calling a spade, a spade we work because we need to eat and we need to live somewhere and we need to be clothed and we need to, you know, there are these necessities that require financial input and we get that from work. And so there is this like pressure, I think, to.

[00:10:29] To hide where we might fall short from a work perspective. I think that's the reality. And so like, how do you, how do you have this, like ja let’s normalize mental health at work, let's like talk about the mental health issues. Let's, you know, how do you do that? When there’s this fear that my job might be taken away from me.

[00:10:55] And so my livelihood. And so my ability to feed myself, clothe myself, house myself.

[00:11:04] Leigh Hartley: [00:11:04] Yeah. So I think the main thing is that, and I, this is what I see quite often is that people, uh, number one, are not aware of where they are at, uh, from a mental perspective, right? So they may feel, I'm not feeling so great. I'm going through these things.

[00:11:21] But I think that as human beings, we always try and push forward and push through and just be like, oh, it doesn't matter. I'll put that on the side. I just need to focus on deadlines, et cetera. So I think what's really important is for people to acknowledge how various things in their lives are affecting them.

[00:11:36] Is it something that where work actually provides a safe. Like a safety area for you where you can go, you can leave those troubles behind focused on work, and then you pick it back up again. When you go back home or is it something that is actively affecting your work? Um, and I think that we, we all know when we are not performing to the level that we ordinarily would, you know, we feel like certain things are slipping.

[00:12:00] We forgetting to do certain things, et cetera. So if you're actually, you know, seeing that it's affecting your work and your delivery, The best thing you can possibly do is to have a conversation with somebody because there's nothing worse than people because everybody's seeing how your performance is slipping, but we don't actually know what the reason for it is.

[00:12:20] Is it just that you're not interested in doing your job anymore? Um, you know, is it that you are experiencing some kind of challenge? This is something we can assist you with. So, I mean, the thing that we always talk about is communication, communication. Is really key, but you can only communicate when you are being self-aware and reflecting about how your emotions are actually impacting the work that you need to do.

[00:12:42] And then once you had that conversation, I think that people will really appreciate the fact that you're being upfront and honest about how certain things are affecting your performance and that you take the time that you may possibly need, just to kind of pull things together and get it back onto the right track.

[00:12:58] Um, as opposed to being in denial about it and trying to hide it. But it's still, you know, Impacting things in a certain way that that doesn't bode well for your career. So, I mean, I would say, you know, if it's a, short-term kind of solution, a short-term situation that you're going through with, you know, it's something that will pass, have that conversation.

[00:13:19] Maybe take some leave, um, you know, pull yourself towards yourself so that you can actually still come back and deliver. The best possible way you can, if it's something that's a little bit more long-term and you require a lot more help, a lot more assistance in all of that. You know, as I said, it's best to maybe communicate with somebody that you trust within the working space.

[00:13:40] Um, that's from a more like an official perspective, whether it's your HR person or your manager or whoever it is, and have that conversation, um, so that they also know what you're going through. And so that various structures can then be put into place to assist you. Um, and it's true. I mean, corporate may not.

[00:13:58] Necessarily have all of those structures in place. But I think with people being more honest and having these conversations with, you know, people like HR and all of that, we get to understand the situation better. And then we can start putting those structures in place within the working environment,

[00:14:16] SureEyes: [00:14:16] yeah, I think, you know, I have had experience with.

[00:14:19] And I don't know if it's also, you know, the culture of the place that you work in. And so, like, I I've had experiences where the team that I was a part of were very understanding and very supportive of the fact that I needed to take a break. And I think because my track record kind of spoke for itself.

[00:14:38] So up until that point, I had been performing, I had been delivering and I kind of say, look, this thing that's happening in my life. So bearing in mind, it took a few falling off the horse and losing my shit and other ways to go, oh, there might be a better way of healing.

[00:15:01] Might be a better way of like managing it from a work perspective.

[00:15:03] And so I think you're right. It takes self-awareness and it takes maturity and it takes, it takes knowing yourself. Right. And then also I think. When you, when the, when there are spaces where these conversations are a bit more normal, it's like, I remember my, one of my managers saying to me, yeah, but if you had the flu, you wouldn't be hiding it.

[00:15:25] She'd be like, yo, I'm sick. I have the flu wiped out for the next week. And no one would question you, you know? And so I think, I think, you know, that's also part of it is the fact that we have our own. Judgment and stigma. And ja, but why are we struggling with this? And is it a real thing? I think we have our own, like things that we put onto it that makes us not think that make us think less of ourselves because we're struggling with it.

[00:16:00] And to know that, you know, there are places, like what you're speaking about, where HR is open to providing that support, given that we are more open, I think is encouraging.

[00:16:13] So given, given that, like, do you find that the people you work with given the more open and acceptance of like mental health challenges, being something that affects people and their delivery, have you like, do you see it as being more I don’t wanna say .

[00:16:32] tolerated because that's the wrong word, but it's like, is there more of an acceptance that this is also a type of illness and I'm not going to judge you if you're sick because of that.

[00:16:45] Leigh Hartley: [00:16:45] So I am definitely seeing more acceptance, but that is that acceptance is balanced by a responsibility. So the responsibility is on the individual, um, from a work perspective for you to get help. So if you've identified that you have these issues, um, I think from a work perspective, we expect that you are seeing somebody that you are going for therapy, that you are, you know, taking medication that you are looking after yourself as well, so that you are doing everything that you need to do from your side to ensure that.

[00:17:20] You know, that aspect of the self is stabilised. So you are then still able to produce and work in the right kind of way that we needed because at the end of the day, you know, um, every single organisation is there to make money. Yeah, and they need the, the, uh, the employee to bring their best selves to work.

[00:17:39] And we know it's not always possible. And you can't always do it a hundred percent, but if you know that there's something going on with you, I think the work expectation is that you find a way to sort it out. And not that we won't give you the time or the acceptance or that management, that this is what's going on, but we also need to see that look, you know, this happening to me.

[00:18:00] Finding ways. And I'm trying to find solutions. I mean, very similar to your example that you use, but if you not feeling well, uh, you know, I know there's a different kind of culture at the moment where you're almost like shown as being the hero. If you come to work sick, but the expectation is that you take some time off.

[00:18:17] That's why we have sick leave. Um, we take medication and you rest so that by the time you come back, you already hit the ground running.

[00:18:26] SureEyes: [00:18:26] I think you've, I think you've raised an important point, this idea of being a hero. Right. And it's like, so either you have to feel, you have to prove to yourself that it's something, you know?

[00:18:42] What irritates me, when people come to work sick and I'm just like, you're just going to infect everyone. Like why, why. You know, even if you want to be the hero, be the hero from home, like work from home or like, or just, you know, as you say, take the sick leave. And I think, I think the more open we are, or the more, the more we have these kind of open discussions, with the people we work with to say I'm not well, I'm taking the steps to deal with it.

[00:19:14] I just need your support in giving me the space to do that. And then that would be, I think that's really encouraging. I think, you know, I guess my...