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Glengarry Glen Ross with Matthew David Brozik

1:25:15
 
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เนื้อหาจัดทำโดย Leah Jones เนื้อหาพอดแคสต์ทั้งหมด รวมถึงตอน กราฟิก และคำอธิบายพอดแคสต์ได้รับการอัปโหลดและจัดเตรียมโดย Leah Jones หรือพันธมิตรแพลตฟอร์มพอดแคสต์โดยตรง หากคุณเชื่อว่ามีบุคคลอื่นใช้งานที่มีลิขสิทธิ์ของคุณโดยไม่ได้รับอนุญาต คุณสามารถปฏิบัติตามขั้นตอนที่อธิบายไว้ที่นี่ https://th.player.fm/legal

Long Island-based author and humorist Matthew David Brozik is on Finding Favorites to talk about his favorite things - potato chips, sleeping and super heroes. More specifically, the last ten minutes of the 1992 movie Glengarry, Glen Ross. We also talk about REM, XTC and TMBG... and TLC.

Matthew's new book Odder Space is available on Amazon in print and digital (though he'd really rather you choose the print copy). Odder Space is a humorous upper middle grade sci-fi novel with awe-inspiring spaceships, belligerent aliens, phlazer battles, pseudoscientific gobbledygook, and an artificial intelligence with a serious morale problem... but also spunk, heart, and some important life lessons. Mostly it’s just a lot of fun.

Keep up with Matthew at IMDB.name

Show Links

Matthew David Brozik_mixdown

1:25:24

SPEAKERS

Announcer, Leah Jones, Matthew David Brozik

Matthew David 00:00

Hello, my name is Matthew David Brozik and my favorite thing is, Glengarry Glen Ross.

Announcer 00:06

Welcome to the Finding Favorites Podcast, where we explore your favorite things without using an algorithm. Here's your host, Leah Jones.

Leah Jones 00:19

Hello, and welcome to Finding Favorites. I'm your host, Leah Jones. It is Sunday, November 6, 2022. In a couple hours, I'll be sitting down with Matthew David Brozik to interview him about his new book, Odder Space and his favorite things. But in order to get this episode out before midnight, I thought I would record my introduction first. So I don't know what Matthew and I will have talked about. What a week it's been! Last Sunday, after I published my episode with Eden, I went to see; How Did This Get Made, Live. I talked about that a lot in the upfront last week that it was, how did this get live was back at the Chicago theater that I had seen Hrishikesh Hirway, and Jenny Owen Youngs earlier in the week at sleeping village, the tote bag, that joke, my reverse merging two celebrity podcasters and straight up celebrities. And when Jocelyn and I went to How Did This Get Made? We were in the third row, even with Jason Mantzoukas. And throughout the show he talked to me a few times, and ended the show by asking me the name on my podcast and recommending it to everyone, who was left in the Chicago theater as the night wound down. And I've spent the whole week recovering from that it was really exciting. And I don't know, if he'd actually got the tote bag or not? I guess it means enough to me that he knows it exists and probably saw a picture from Hrishi. I did get it on stage, thanks to my friend Jocelyn. When you listen to the Morbius episode, maybe you'll hear a little bit of that interaction. But I doubt it. You might hear my question. I think my question will probably make the episode but that's about it. But it was just really cool. I've been a big fan of, How Did This Get Made, for many years now, five or six years. I just have a really clear memory of being at a happy hour, after a leadership retreat at a previous employer, before I was laid off, which would have made me, I think 39 or 40 at the time. It's such a weird, clear memory, explaining How Did This Get Made and who Jason Mantzoukas wasn't what they knew him from, which at the time was mostly the league. Anyway, that happened, that was huge. I finally got the results of my ADHD evaluation, which I will take to the rest of my medical team and see what we can do with it. Essentially, I would have ADHD exclamation point, if I hadn't had the last two years of cancer, and the sarcoidosis diagnosis, because they can never separate out the impact of sarcoidosis on my brain from my current cognitive functioning. But essentially all signs point to ADHD, except for that 4 MRIs of my brain that point to sarcoidosis. So hopefully, I will get to try. I'll start working specifically on some ADHD interventions and maybe try some medication. But it was frustrating. It's such a good professional that I worked with to get this evaluation. But I am very frustrated that I continue to be someone who is considered a complex patient with complex medical history. When I'm like no, no, no, I was really good until I was like 39 and then you know like it's just been a hard few years but that doesn't mean it's complex forever, but it kind of does. So that's just frustrating hard to come to terms with. He also recommended that I find a health psychologist somewhere to start working through the trauma of the cancer diagnosis, even though it was stage one and it was an “easy” (you know, quote unquote easy) treatment that I still like clearly have a lot of anxiety left over from as I come out of this year and a year half of cancer treatment. I am going to try and go vote midterms are on Tuesday. So I have gone through all of the election mailers in my mailbox and found some of the most useful ones, made some notes on it. And I'm going to go vote in between recording this and then talking to Matthew later this afternoon. It was spring forward fall back. Most of the clocks in my house have changed. Some have not, some are now three hours off. I don't know, how they even got two hours off. I mean, it's just been, what a huge week. It's just been a big week, but also feels kind of like nothing has happened. It is finally fall weather in Chicago. Climate change has kept it a very warm fall. We had beautiful colors but because of it but 70 degrees and November was unsettling. So the incredible winds that we get rains, we got this weekend felt a little bit more appropriate to the season. I don't know with that. I am buying myself another T-shirt quilt because I am also recovering from bronchitis this week. But as part of that, they put me on steroids. And so I suddenly have a lot of energy that I haven't had in months. And so, I tackled my out-of-control shelves and dug out 16 T-shirts to turn into a T-shirt quilt, which opens up room for more appropriate clothing that I need to wear this winter. So I'm sending off T-shirts to memory stitch again. And I don't know, I guess, it's not a nothing happened week. It's a lot of things happen. With that, I hope that you get out and vote that you're voting for Democrats that you're voting in support of access to health care workers’ rights, unions, bodily autonomy, access to free devoting, access to the social safety net, increased taxes, wash your hands, wear your mask, get your booster, get your flu shot, and keep enjoying your favorite things.

Leah Jones 08:00

Hello, and welcome to Finding Favorites. I'm your host, Leah Jones. And this is the podcast where we learn about people's favorite things and get recommendations without using an algorithm. Today, I am talking with Matthew David Brozik. Matthew and I have been online friends now for a very long time and have never actually spoken to each other. But we have a common, we've got one friend in common. I think only one. And that's how we know each other. But Dave, what Matthew? Are you doing this afternoon?

Matthew David 08:31

I'm doing very well. Thank you. I'm doing great. And I just want to mention that this is my first time as a podcast guest.

Leah Jones 08:40

What?

Matthew David 08:42

And yeah, I know. Can you believe that with a voice like this?

Leah Jones 08:43

Truly, with a voice like this. The Microphone?

Matthew David 08:47

Exactly. The microphone belongs to my wife. I had to dig it out of a closet. But where I put it, actually, I put it in the closet. So I was the only one, who knew where it was. And being very interesting, which…

Leah Jones 09:02

I will come to find out. I know that you're interesting on Facebook. And I know that you have stayed friends with Ronnie for longer than anyone should. So I suspect, you're funny and interesting.

Matthew David 09:17

I am, as is Ronnie and we'll talk about Ronnie in a minute because that's really, he's looking forward to that. It's not going to be interesting to anybody else in the world, but our mutual friends. So I just wanted to say because I've never been on a podcast and I assume this is going to be a nerve-racking experience. I poured myself a cocktail as one does, and I made sure to put in a generous amount of ice both so that I don't fall asleep in 20 minutes. And so that you hear the tinkling of ice cubes, right, but now I'm afraid, afraid might not be the word, concerned that the tinkling won't be sufficient, so please, would you add some ice tinkling in post. Just to make sure because that's the kind of podcast guest I want people to think of me as. That sounds more like applause.

Leah Jones 10:12

That was applause.

Matthew David 10:14

That was applause.

Leah Jones 10:15

I have cheering, clapping, laughing, drum rolls.

Matthew David 10:18

But no ice tinkling?

Leah Jones 10:20

No Ice tinkling.

Matthew David 10:21

All right, well.

Leah Jones 10:22

So, I'll see, what I can find.

Matthew David 10:24

I'll send you something, if need be.

Leah Jones 10:22

A clean sample.

Matthew David 10:31

Yes. Actual ice tinkle. Yes, I will. You know, the last time I sent someone tinkle. The feds showed up at my... Okay, so we're talking about, oh, so here's the other reason that I was nervous. I'm not actually but as your audience knows, probably better than I do. This is a show about favorites. And the conceit is brilliant. It's somewhat reactionary to algorithms. And the idea is an interesting and or available person comes on and recommends, suggests things that they like, and I sent you an initial list of things that I like. And I was then embarrassed by my list because I realized that so many of the things that I like are things that people already know about, and I felt wow, this is going to be awful. If I just recommend things to people, do you like Ghostbusters? Have you ever heard of that? Because or like, oh, what's

Leah Jones 11:37

It’s an independent film from the 80s. You would really say that, New York is the character in the movie.

Matthew David 11:44

There are four or five, six main characters, but also Manhattan is as much of a character in Ghostbusters, as it is in such other films as say, Manhattan. But, we're just without the luxury. So I started thinking about things that I like, and I realized, I really like a lot of things that everybody also likes. And I thought, wow, what a terrific guest I would be, if I just start recommending things like Star War.

Leah Jones 12:19

The Avengers, Star Wars

Matthew David 12:20

Do you like Spiderman?

Leah Jones 12:23

Have you ever heard [Not audible [00:12:25]]?

Matthew David 12:25

And then because I have problems and everything is a joke to me. I started thinking, what if I came on and really committed to this bit, where I just recommended things like money or potato chips. And I like just sincerely suggested, hey, do you guys have you heard of sleeping? It's amazing at the end of the day.

Leah Jones 12:50

Yeah. I could straight up talk to you for an hour about sleeping because one; What sheets are you using these days?

Matthew David 12:57

I think, they're all cotton maybe bamboo or we have a wide variety, we have eight pillows, there's two of us. The Mrs. and I, we have eight pillows, so eight pillowcases because you know we [Not audible[00:13:10]]

Leah Jones 13:10

Are they [Not audible] or are they acrylic like what like in Memory foam.

Matthew David 13:15

You know, it's I think we have one of everything. Like we definitely have and this isn't necessarily a recommendation but [Not audible] I will recently bought. No we bought a Helix mattress and I assume; I'm allowed to name names because we're Finding Favorites and I do like it very much. I don't know that I go out of my way to recommend it because I don't sleep on that many different mattresses especially now that I'm married. So you know, stick to the one that we have. But we did upgrade recently from a spring mattress to whatever this other kind is considered just no springs.

Leah Jones 13:52

I just got, I have a totally Instagram bed now. So I have the Thuma bed frame, which I am obsessed with. It's the one that is essentially Lincoln Logs, but like it's Japanese engineering, adult tinker toys. There are two screws in the whole thing. It's just well for the joints. Beautiful. I have the Big Fig Mattress, which is specifically a mattress for heavier people. I am obsessed with sheets from a company called Comphy. They make sheets for Spas. So it's meant to be like massage tables are meant to be washed all the time and every time you wash them they get softer.

Matthew David 14:41

Do you have a guest bedroom?

Leah Jones 14:42

Ideal.

Matthew David 14:43

Can I visit?

Leah Jones 14:44

You may.

Matthew David 14:45

Is it a fancy? Like I realized, it's not going to be as nice?

Leah Jones 14:48

Not as nice but they are quality sheets. I upgraded to like a bamboo, a bamboo sheet for that. And then I've got a really nice T-shirt quilt with like fleece on one side and T-shirt, which I think is a perfect quilt.

Matthew David 15:02

That sounds terrific. We don't have anything. This might be, why I don't sleep very well. And worrying about being interesting on a podcast.

Leah Jones 15:13

So I guess, what I'm saying is even if you'd come to me with sleep and potato chips, I have a potato chip, I tried last night. I think, I threw the bag away. But it is a new, it's Lay's. And it is the shape of a checks. But it is big.

Matthew David 15:32

It's like square? Like a pillow? Gotcha.

Leah Jones 15:36

A potato chip. So it's like a potato chip Poof. It's like only the ridges woven together into a salty poof. It is amazing.

Matthew David 15:45

Anyway, yeah. So it sounds like you live a very pillow rich life.

Leah Jones 15:50

Pillow rich life, snack rich life, Lot of candy. I do what I can.

Matthew David 15:56

You like candy? And have you heard of Halloween?

Leah Jones 16:01

Do I have a second podcast called Candy Chat Chicago.

Matthew David 16:05

Oh, that's right. You know what, and Ronnie, who we still have not explained to anyone mentioned that to me when I told him. So as soon as you invited me. I immediately then emailed Ronnie. And you don't let's not tell anybody who Ronnie is. Let's just get go and just let them try to figure it out. And, I said, oh, so Leah asked me to be on our podcast. And I'm really excited. And he said which one? And I was like, I Okay, you lost me. And he said, I assume it's the Finding Favorites, unless it's the candy one. So that's how I immediately knew that you had a second podcast. I mean, most people, and I don't know, if you know this, but I did some research. Most people don't even have one podcast. Although we're getting to that point where I guess on your typical person, does have one.

Leah Jones 16:57

You, typical person has a podcast that stops at six episodes.

Matthew David 17:02

What number is this? Seven?

Leah Jones 17:05

Seven.

Matthew David 17:06

Okay.

Leah Jones 17:08

Number Seven, 137 something like that. In the range.

Matthew David 17:13

That is impressive. I am impressed. Color me impressed.

Leah Jones 17:17

So Matthew, you have a book just launched?

Matthew David 17:22

I do under launch.

Leah Jones 17:23

Odder space.

Matthew David 17:23

I shouldn't talk over you.

Leah Jones 17:27

It's fine.

Matthew David 17:28

You're pushing my book, and I'm speaking over you.

Leah Jones 17:33

So you've just launched Odder Space. And it is an upper grade sci-fi adventure, upper middle grade. It’s different than, why?

Matthew David 17:43

It is. And maybe, I shouldn't confess that I'm fairly new to this age range. As far as writing, I'm not new to the actual age range, because I am in my late 40s. So I passed through these ages.

Leah Jones 17:56

You survived them.

Matthew David 17:57

I did. But I used to, and still do write for adults, I don't write adult literature. But I didn't write for the younger set, as we might say. But a good friend of mine, who does write for middle grade students, twisted my arm and got me to start writing for younger readers. And so I learned very quickly what the gradations are there, and YA is probably what most people are most familiar with. Because the A and YA, obviously is adult and young adult novels are fairly popular with adult readers as well. And they tend to be at least one serious theme, whether it be death or disease or sexuality. And I have no interest in any of those things. I have no interest in death, or dying, or sexuality, just in my actual life, not just reading about them. So I aimed a little lower, not in terms of quality, clearly, well, not clearly. But in terms of grade and reading level, not coincidentally, because my daughter is now 10 and I wrote a first children's novel two years ago, and she was my main audience. So that was solidly middle grade, which is a little younger than YA and tends to be defined by not having anything serious, not having any adult.

Leah Jones 19:34

Not having a dark theme or heavy life lesson.

Matthew David 19:37

But they are chapter books that typically are geared toward the middle grade sets, a figure middle school or like fifth grade to seventh grade and then upper middle grade would be, just shift that up one or two years. And the rule of thumb, which again, I learned a couple of years ago is that younger readers tend to prefer their protagonists about a year older than they are. So I didn't necessarily set out to write an upper middle grade novel with Odder Space, I think, I first decided the age of the protagonist. And he is a 13 year old boy. At this point, as we sit here, and I reminisce about the past couple of years of writing this book, I don't remember why I decided that he would be 13. But it seemed that I needed him to be in a certain place at a certain time, and the certain places outer space on a spaceship.

Leah Jones 20:45

In time reference

Matthew David 20:47

Exactly right. Yes, that, you know, that's what's missing. That'll be in the sequel. God willing. And so then once I determined that he was going to be 13, then I realized, okay, this is firmly upper middle grade. So I'm saying 9 to 13 is the audience but, most of my read, I mean, all of my first readers are adults. They're my friends, including Ronnie. The aforementioned and soon to be mentioned again, many times, Ronnie, who has read the book, at least twice. And so my readers have been, again, adults, but and then my daughter read a proof. And she stayed up reading it. She didn't originally find it very interesting in manuscript form. But then I got a proof of the book, asked her to read it, it felt like a book that may have made a difference, just the size, instead of reading a manuscript on 8 and a half by 11, cheap white paper, she was holding a paperback. And I was very flattered. When early the next morning, she burst into my bedroom, which we were talking about earlier, you and I, your audience will recall, there's a bed with sheets. And actually she burst into the room and she said, Dad, your book is great. And I said, get out of my room. I'm trying to sleep. And I said, No, thank you. That's really wonderful, that means so much to me. I said, did you read the whole thing? She said, I couldn't put it down. I read the whole thing. I stayed up. And I read it. And I didn't even want to put it down to go to the bathroom. And I said being a good parent. I said, well, you know, you should put a book down and go to the bathroom if you need to. And she said, Oh, I went to the bathroom. I just took the book with me.

Leah Jones 22:48

That is the ultimate compliment.

Matthew David 22:51

It is. It really is. And then I said okay, you hold on to that copy. And please, just don't put that on a shelf and put it back on the communal, don't put it back. Exactly. Keep that off the coffee table in the living room. So Odder Space is an upper middle grade sci-fi book. It's humorous. It is very much in the general Star Trek vein in that the all of the action or most of the action takes place on a spaceship. And we were joking earlier about the New York City being as much of a character and as any Star Trek fan knows the Starship Enterprise or other ships are a character and Odder Space takes it a little further in that the ship called the Amity because the powers that be didn't want to call it the starship friendship, because that would sound ridiculous. So they called it the starship Amity has a personality. It has an artificial intelligence on board named MANI it's an acronym MANI - Mail Automated Networked Interface. And MANI is very much a character with a personality and a problem. Manny is very sad. So that was really the genesis of this book. I was thinking about classic science fiction adventures like Star Trek, like Star Wars, like Battlestar Galactica, like the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. And I made a list of what made each of them unique. What was the driving force of each of them and they were all slightly different? And I realized that there was a sort of an opening for a different approach, which is, what if a crew were on a spaceship and the ship itself were their biggest problem? And that led me to the idea of an artificial intelligence that just doesn't want to do its job anymore? And I was thinking, why would that be? And I don't want to give anything away. And I'm not going to, but essentially, just before the opening of the book, there's a catastrophe that really depresses the AI on the ship. And that leads to, well, I want to say hilarity and also other things. And that's the premise of the book. And I decided to write it.

Leah Jones 25:14

It's an AI that has a different goals than How(couldn’t understand the movie name) from 2001?

Matthew David 25:20

Yes, in fact, again, without going into too much detail, you might even say a completely different goal, because How(couldn’t understand the movie name) entire goal was self-preservation. And this is an AI that basically has given up and doesn't want to go on. He has suffered a loss, that only he really feels it in a way that none of the humans on board feel and he just doesn't want to go on. And, the only one who really connects with him is the main character Jeremy, who goes by his nickname Jerm, which is a bit ironic because his mother is the doctor on the ship. And just circling back to the Star Trek, I had an immediate reservation, of course, because the kid on Star Trek The Next Generation, Wesley Crusher, played by Wil Wheaton was the female ship doctor's son. And that's the exact scenario that we have here. And I wondered, hey, is that going to be to derivative? And then ultimately, I said, you know, what? It's fine. And chances are most 9 to 13 year old readers these days. We're not watching Star Trek The Next Generation, and just won't make the Westlake Crusher connection.

Leah Jones 26:46

And if their parents read it and catch a nod to it, great. Something they recognize.

Matthew David 26:52

And in fact, there are plenty of I don't want to say Easter Eggs, but there are plenty of nods to Star Trek and other classic sci-fi properties in there. There's a very central key piece of equipment onboard the Amity, called a spectrometer. And it's a mass spectrometer and one of the problems is that they haven't worked out all the Kirk's in the mass spectrometer yet. So there's a great deal of wordplay, that it's okay, if the primary audience isn't going to get but spell check certainly didn't get the jokes. But the adults will and I encourage children of all ages, adults of all ages to read well, maybe not children of all ages, but anyone, eight, nine and up, I think they'll get a real kick out of it. And I loved writing it. I'm extraordinarily proud of the book. And I'm excited. I really hope people get to read it. I hope they just do and love it as much as I do.

Leah Jones 28:01

Amazing. So it is available now. People can order it on Amazon. It's also available on Kindle, but they should order the print copy.

Matthew David 28:10

Oh, absolutely. I don't love eBooks. And I'm very glad that Amazon's publishing platform allows now paperback books. And a lot of work went into the book not just writing it but the cover design. The interior was designed. It's a beautiful little book.

Leah Jones 28:32

What chapter headings, did you settle on. Ronnie and I were talking about.

Matthew David 28:37

Oh, numbers. So this was my daughter's actual contribution to the book. I had originally written them out as words, chapter one, chapter two all the way to chapter 20. And hadn't given that a lot of thought even though with each manuscript that I write, I do think about what kind of chapter headings I want. Sometimes they'll be actual names of chapters, sometimes it's just numbers. And this time I had written it out and I don't think I really thought about it until I got the first proof and thought this is an opportunity to maybe, Mary, the chapter headings a little bit more to the to the substance, especially because it was in a nicer font. And I realized, there's nothing special about just writing out Chapter 1, Chapter 20. So I noodle around and I asked my daughter, and I asked Ronnie and some other friends and we had almost settled on spelling out the word chapter and writing the number in numerals. And then my daughter, an actual certified genius. I certified her. I'm certified as a genius certifier. It's a kind of a loop, but she said well, why not just the numbers and is like giant embarrassing light bulb went off over my head and I was like, that is the way to go. But 01,…. So really emphasize that binary computer. And speaking of binary, there was a moment where I very briefly considered putting the numbers in binary and just zeros and ones and then I realized this is that's a bridge too far. So I stopped that probably would have been off putting. There's a time and a place. Actually, Roman numerals would be hilarious. Just completely anachronistic. Just absurd.

Leah Jones 30:33

I inexplicably have you know that song, there's 123456 wheels on a big rig. And then it's like count by twos. There's 2 4 6 8 10 12

Matthew David 30:46

I do not know.

Leah Jones 30:50

So there's a verse of that song.

Matthew David 30:52

That's Pearl Jam?

Leah Jones 30:54

It's Pearl Jam. Covered also by the Beatles.

Matthew David 30:59

Pearl Jam covered by the Beatles. I don't like the way it usually goes. But okay.

Leah Jones 31:03

While it was interesting. And there's one verse of it. It's like Roman numerals. How many wheels on a big rig I IV, VI, VI, VI X X that like, and that is a how I can count to 18 in Roman numerals.

Matthew David 31:20

That's I'm going to have to look up that. So if you can write Beatles, how's that Spelled? B E A T. It's wordplay right?.

Leah Jones 31:31

B E E D Valley, the Beatles

Matthew David 31:35

I'll have to look up that song. See if you can find it and make it like the tag to this.

Leah Jones 31:43

So Odder space available now. People can find out more information on IMDB dot name.

31:50

Matthew David 31:49

Don't go to IMDB.com because I've never been in a movie But with a voice like this. But yes, so IMDb dot name, my own personal and spend some time there, noodle around. There's all sorts of short story, short humor pieces, no videos of cats? I don't like that..

Leah Jones 32:12

Early when we like met, you had published a book called Taking IV Seriously, which you no longer make available?

Matthew David 32:20

Yes.

Leah Jones 32:23

Why? Copyright problem?

Matthew David 32:25

No, it's entirely. [Not Audible] You know what I forgotten about?

Leah Jones 32:32

Honestly, My basic understanding of copyright. Copyright, Infringement, patent law comes from that book. In a previous life, you were a copyright attorney, right?

Matthew David 32:45

Yes, I practiced for a decade and decided to then become a copywriter. Which is very confusing to people who meet me. And it's why I just don't like meeting people anymore. Because I have to explain, because if they've heard even a little bit about me, then I'm already, we're already into deep. They say so you used to be a lawyer. And you did copyright law. And now you're a copywriter. And what's the difference? And I say, who looks really interesting, that guy over there. And when they when they look, I just run usually toward the bar. But yes, I published a novella, it was the first thing that I published. It was the first longer piece of fiction that I wrote, longer than any short story, but not quite novel length. And I like it very much. And it was something I labored on for about 10 years. And I had started, when I was in Law school. And I think, I never quite cracked it. I never quite solved it. And even though I released it, I reached a point or there came a time when it was no longer being purchased. And I think I released it maybe seven, eight years ago, I don't honestly don't remember at this point. And maybe even longer than that. It maybe, it was 10 years ago. But as was with most things that had a shelf life. And once it reached the point that whoever was going to buy it had bought it. I started thinking this is not necessarily what I want to be representing me anymore, because I had written more and better and longer things. And it bugged me a little bit that it wasn't quite as long as maybe it could or should have been. And I just figured you know, what I can because it was self-published, I can just sort of take it down. And I did and that's not to say that I wouldn't put it back at some point. But it just felt like okay, I'm better represented by everything that I've written and released since then, and there have been a few things. I think, I've got five or six books available. And one of which is a novella intentionally; Danger with a Hard G.

Leah Jones 35:18

Harrison Bennett Novella.

Matthew David 35:20

Yes. Harrison Bennett Novella, the main character is Harrison Dangar Bennett, hence the danger with a Hard G. Something else. Another thing I had a hell of a great time writing. And, but that was intentionally a novella. I just wanted to write a short, tight, sort of comic, hardboiled mystery novel. And I did and there was never a battle for page length or word count. And I never felt like, oh, this is coming in too short. If anything, I tried very hard to keep it to novella length, just get in and get out, make the jokes, hit those beats. And I'm very proud of that. I'm very proud of everything that I've released. But something about IV, I just figured you know, what, maybe I'd like to not take it back. If given the opportunity, I wouldn't go to people's homes and deleted off their Kindle. And that one, in fact, I only released as an eBook. There is no paperback version of that. So I would have to break into people's homes and access their devices. And that's time consuming, honestly.

Leah Jones 36:32

It is, but it gives you the chance to travel the country, travel the world,

Matthew David 36:36

The world? Exactly.

Leah Jones 36:40

According to my inbox that I apparently never clean out, taking IV seriously, was released on September 5, 2013.

Matthew David 36:49

Okay, so 50 years ago. What did you say? 2013?

Leah Jones 36:56

2013, Labor Day.

Matthew David 36:58

Life lifetime ago. That was like, I wasn't, still practicing Law. Maybe I was, I don't know. But at least for at least, four jobs ago. Four copywriting jobs ago.

Matthew David 37:26

So do you want to hear about any of my favorites?

Leah Jones 37:26

Yeah, I was just about to ask you.

Matthew David 37:29

I should let you be in charge. You drive this train.

Leah Jones 37:31

I will do the job of hosting. How about that? I just for the record, the first list you sent me was not like, so common. Words and writing, comedians and jokes. Glen Glengarry Glen Ross, Ecstasy the band and Back to the future. So, other than writing, writing has been pretty well covered because they do interview a lot of authors.

Matthew David 37:58

How dare you?

Leah Jones 37:59

I know. How dare, they're constantly be authors, with books to promote who also have favorite things they want to talk about. But then you're like, okay, in addition to boring things like Star Wars and Ghostbusters, you've got Jeeves and Wooster, The Adult Short Stories of Roald Dahl, Bands with Letters For Names, English Madrigals, The Last 10 Minutes Of Glengarry Glen Ross and really clever comedians,

Matthew David 38:28

Can I ask you have you seen Glengarry Glen Ross? Like are you familiar with the film?

Leah Jones 38:32

I think, Glengarry Glen Ross is like always be selling and shut up and drink the coffee. Right? Like they're angry and they're [Not audible]

Matthew David 38:41

Both wrong. Well, I mean, you were close, but everybody listening is laughing now.

Leah Jones 38:47

Always be closing?

Matthew David 38:48

Always be closing. Excellent. And put that coffee down. Coffee is for closers. But yes, you're familiar enough to make everybody who loves this film cringe and that was excellent. But wait, have you seen it? Or are you just, my voice is cracked.

Leah Jones 39:11

I don't know, if I've seen it or if I just know, it from movie podcasts and Tumblr.

Matthew David 39:15

Wow! We're here now. This is the moment. Glengarry Glen Ross is originally a play by David Mamet. It was successful as a play and mounted, I believe originally both in London and New York, I think first one than the other, and was then fairly quickly adapted into a film, which David Mamet then wrote the screenplay for and the original play. The play is just 2 acts three scenes per act, two locations. The movie is essentially those same two locations with others sprinkled in. He fleshed it out. Added much more dialogue, more characters and famously added Alec Baldwin's character who is a representative of the head office that these salesmen work for, who is sent to their office one night to give them a very abusive, motivational talk.

Leah Jones 40:23

Is he Glengarry Glen Ross?

Matthew David 40:26

No. I hate the title.

Leah Jones 40:31

It’s so hard to say.

Matthew David 40:32

It is. Yes.

Leah Jones 40:33

Glen Garry Glen Ross, Glen Ross.

Matthew David 40:38

No. It's one. Glen Garry is one word. And then Glen Ross, two words, and they refer to two different land. So the salesmen are in the business of selling land, mainly and Florida and Arizona, basically just crappy land that they're selling to unsuspecting. It's like a boiler room operation of selling land. And that's just not worth what they're claiming it is. And Glengarry Farms is one of the parcels or one of the sets of land that they used to sell. And that's referred to at one point, and then, or Glen Ross farms and then Glengarry. Glen Garry is the new set of leads that they got, I literally watched this movie again two days ago, and I'm confused. But the new leads, the Glengarry leads is, what the movie is really all about. They're the new hot leads, the people who might be interested in purchasing land, and the salesmen all want to get their hands on these leads, but they're not allowed, because they're not good enough. So those leads will only go to the closers. And these guys are not. So I hate the title of this movie. And if I ever met David Mamet, and David, if you're listening, please email me. And explain to me why you couldn't have named this play, your play anything else? Or the joke among the actors, I understand was that they used to refer to it as death of a fucking salesman, because there is so much cursing in this. I once brought the DVD with me to work, when I was working on a weekend and I figured, you know what, I'll just, I'll keep this on. I was really just at the office on call more than anything. And I figured, I'll just have this play in the background, and I must have forgotten, how much cursing is there and I didn't have headphones on and just like within the first 30 seconds, I realized, Oh, nope, nope, nope. can't play this at work.

Leah Jones 43:00

Not even on a weekend.

Matthew David 43:02

No, Or at night, but it is. It is. I really, I want you to watch this movie. Tonight. And it just hit a streaming service. With most movies, it comes they come and go off streaming services, and I of course have the DVD, which I didn't buy recently, but and I burned it onto or I ripped it in, it's on my computer. So it goes where I go most part. So I can always just fire up Glengarry Glen Ross. But I think it's on Hulu. So it is so wonderful.

Leah Jones 43:45

Really incredible cast.

Matthew David 43:46

Oh, the cast is phenomenal. And the one problematic thing about it. And this is beyond the scope of this podcast, I'm sure but what's his name? Spacey. Kevin Spacey plays a major role. And I love this movie. And as it happens, one of my other favorite movies is the usual suspects also starring Kevin Spacey. Kevin Spacey in recent years has become problematic. And it always raises the question well, what do you do when you love something that involves or was produced by someone who

Leah Jones 44:22

You later that find out as trash.

Matthew David 44:24

Allegedly trash. We’re talking about a lot of different people.

Leah Jones 44:30

You are Attorney, use the word allegedly.

Matthew David 44:32

No, but I'm saying we don't. Right now we're talking about Kevin Spacey. But it could be anybody. It could be Michael Jackson. It can be what do you do? And do you have a moral obligation to not watch a movie with Kevin Spacey? Do you have an obligation one way or the other to not listen to Michael Jackson's music and I'm of the mind that I know that it's out there. You're not sending money to this person. You're perfect personal, Kevin Spacey is not getting any more money from Glengarry Glen Ross. That's not the way it works. But regardless, there's something out there, I don't think a consumer needs to deprive themselves of the joy of consuming product. I'm not going to deny myself the sheer joy of watching Glengarry Glen Ross, once a week or whatever it is, because Kevin Spacey might be, on our shitless right now. It's for me and I love this movie. I'm going to watch it. But as it happens, two of my favorite movies star Kevin Spacey. He's not one of my favorite actors, as it happens, but he is into my favorite films and I really I like him very much, but I'm not going to go so far as to recommend Kevin Spacey to anybody on this podcast. But as it happens, he's in this film, Jack Lemmon, Al Pacino, Alan Arkin - who is amazing, Ed Harris. Every person in this movie is fantastic. There's one woman, but she's just in the background, is very much a man movie. It's just angry, frustrated, cursing men.

Leah Jones 46:27

1992

Matthew David 46:28

Yeah, it is It stands the test of time, but it's very dated. In that it's men selling land by cold calling prospects. And the play actually took place in the early 80s, I believe. So they needed to even move up the timing when they filmed it. So there's a lot of phone calls, there are payphones in the movie. It's very much a product of its time. But the characterizations and the frustrations and the motivations are timeless. Basically just people having a really shitty two days, partly of their own making.

Leah Jones 47:13

And then but specifically, you love the last 10 minutes. We confirmly go into the spoilers on this movie is, 1992 to 2002. So it's almost 30 years.

Matthew David 47:28

If you haven't seen it.

Leah Jones 47:31

That’s impossible because I went and graduated high school in 1995, which was no more than 15 years ago. How 1992 was 30 years ago.

Matthew David 47:41

Yeah, the math doesn't line up. But let's not worry about that, right now. The main conflict of the movie is that these salesmen are having these new leads sort of dangled before them. And they're all having a hard time making sales and closing sales, and they're all afraid that they're going to lose their job. Ed Harris's character is probably the angriest of all of them. And he essentially decides that he and one of the other salesmen should burglarize their office and steal these new leads and make it look like random burglary. And they're going to take these new leads, and they're going to sell them to a competitor, who will then also hire them. So there's a bit of a twist in the movie because you see and hear Ed Harris's character, Dave Moss, enlisting Alan Arking’s character, George to go in with him on this. And that's one of the major scenes and that's one of the three scenes of Act One of the play, essentially their conversation in which Dave convinces or tries to convince George to be his partner in this burglary. And the second half of the play is the following morning when it becomes apparent that the office has been burglarized, and the leads have been stolen. So now it's a mystery, who did it because you know that the only thing you do know is that it Harris's character, didn't do it, but you don't know who did it. And you have a lot of reason to suspect that Alan Arking’s character, didn't do it. Throughout the movie, Jack Lemmon’s character, Shelley, The Machine Levene is very, very dismissive and abusive of Kevin Spacey, his character who is the office manager. And this is just an incredible performance by Jack Lemmon. It's just you watch this and you can't believe that any of these men are acting like this is beyond acting. It's like the way you felt, watching Heath Ledger play the Joker. There's a moment when everybody else feels like an actor, but they're acting with the Joker. Every actor, every person in Glengarry Glen Ross is a real person, you forget that, you know these people from other movies, they are their characters and it's completely immersive. And there's a moment at the very end of the movie in essentially the last 10 minutes and it may be even later than that, when Jack Lemmon has just paraded Kevin Spacey’s character and he's just given him shit for ruining Al Pacino’s sell. And he says, he has this throwaway line. He says, you should know if you're going to make something up, you'd better be sure that it helps. And Kevin Spacey is just kind of not even listening to Jack Lemmon. He's kind of just looking off to the side. And then, in this incredible moment of acting, he just refocuses his eyes. He just looks from the floor to Jack Lemmon who's in the distance and he's kind of like looking right past the viewer. And you see, it clicks in his mind. He realizes that Jack Lemons character that Shelley just said the wrong thing and revealed all and it all falls into place into Kevin Spacey’s character mind. And he realizes that the only way Jack Lemmon character would know that Kevin Spacey’s character had made something up, was if he had robbed the office. And he just looks up and he says, How do you know I made it up. And then there's this immediate switch in Jack Lemons character's whole demeanor. And he gets completely flustered and says what are you talking about? And Kevin Spacey very slowly and very deliberately says, how do you know, I made it up? And then he spells out exactly for Shelley where all the pieces fit and, and explains exactly why the only way Shelley would know that he had just made something up was if he had been in the office last night, robbing the place and it just turns the entire movie on his head. And everything just it's a mystery solved. It gives me chills every time. And even in the play a few years ago, I picked up a copy of the play as a book. And I keep it in my bedroom and I will read it just every so often, if I'm not watching the movie, I'm reading the play and that moment still gets me it clearly, it doesn't have the same effect as just words on a page. As watching Kevin Spacey delivered these lines and Jack Lemmon but in a movie that's just an hour and a half or two hours of just phenomenal performances. This moment is just the top of the mountain. Sometimes this is bizarre, but sometimes I will just watch those 10 minutes. Yeah, I will just watch that end of the movie.

Leah Jones 53:51

I don't think that's a weird.

Matthew David 53:52

Good and also are you familiar with Ghostbusters?

Matthew David 54:09

And we're back.

Leah Jones 54:10

And we're back.

Matthew David 54:11

Should we tell people about Ronnie now?

Leah Jones 54:14

We will. But before we get there, I would like to time travel. What was your first interaction with this movie or play? Did you see it in the theater?

Matthew David 54:25

I don't remember.

Leah Jones 54:26

It just always was.

Matthew David 054:28

Yeah, but I think, it wasn't because when you reminded me just now of when it came out? I definitely did not see it. Then. What do you say? 1992. I was, I had just begun college. And I don't remember, I have no idea and I also don't know, why I would have seen it. It doesn't seem like the kind of movie that I would have been interested in for a long time. It very well might have been a recommendation from a friend. I probably had no idea who David Mamet was. And I had never read any of his other plays. I recently, probably at the beginning of the pandemic, read all of his plays. Okay, at least a lot of them. I went to the library and grabbed everything I could. I'm sorry, David. I got them at the library.

Leah Jones 55:22

Authors from what I see love libraries.

Matthew David 55:25

Yes libraries are terrific. So, David Mamet's not making any money off of me. But the only other movie of his, that I've seen, I think is the Spanish Prisoner. Although I believe, he wrote a movie that most people don't know that he wrote. Except, I don't remember, what it was. So you're looking it up now. I can hear you typing.

Leah Jones 55:48

The Untouchables. The Postman Rings. Wag the dog, Hannibal.

Matthew David 55:54

David Mamet very accomplished writer, playwriter, screenwriter. And but I did not see it when it first came out. And I don't think, I ever saw him in the theater. And so, I do not know. And it would be nice. It would be fun for me to remember. Or maybe have my memory jogged and know why I first saw it but I think, I loved it as soon as I saw it, it was unlike, it still is unlike almost any other movie out there. It's all everybody talks about how it's all dialogue. It's just all talking and it's very in that regard is very different from most movies today, at least that that are wildly popular. There's no special effects.

Leah Jones 56:40

Right, it’s not even like multiple set pieces.

Matthew David 56:45

It's it takes place in a Chinese restaurant, in an office. And again, a lot of it on pay phones. And the dialogue as much as David Mamet is known for his dialogue, the dialogue is not realistic. People don't talk the way David Mamet characters talk, but it's so much fun to watch them and listen to them talk the way they do. That it doesn't matter. I mean, we watch movies all the time.

Leah Jones 57:17

[Not Audible] and Sherman Palladino, You don't always want to watch shows with people talking the way you talk. Sometimes you want to watch elevated wordplay and like highly structured. Like, I am big pentameter. You want to watch things with rhythm and vocabulary that you don't grasp in everyday life.

Matthew David 57:40

Absolutely. And there's a lot of crosstalk, especially in scenes with Ed Harris and Alan Arkin. There's, a terrific scene with him at a Donut shop and a coffee shop. And Alan Arkin, he's very much a secondary character. He stills the scene, his speech pattern steals the scene, the way he keeps trying to, I guess, get a word in edgewise with Ed Harris, but he doesn't really have anything to say. So he's just delivering these half lines or these single words at a time. And it's very well done and very specialized. I think that's not the word, I would have chosen. But it's very specialized dialogue and ends very virtuosic.

Leah Jones 58:40

Precise.

Matthew David 58:41

It is.

Leah Jones 58:41

David Mamet is not going to, I think, allow people to riff on his word.

Matthew David 58:48

I don't think there was much improvising, going on is very strict. But because it serves a purpose. You really you can't break like, each character is very, very well defined, and the way they talk and what they're, what they're talking about, and their motivations, and I think you can't stray far from that. And also, it's clear, if you read the play that it's, he clearly took what he had written, translated it and then flushed it out with more of the same. Fortunately, it's so good that more of the same is more of a good thing.

Leah Jones 59:25

Did you know that he wrote a Torah commentary with Rabbi Kushner of the wicked son?

Matthew David 59:33

I did not. Maybe I did. But like so many things that were touching upon I forgotten.

Leah Jones 59:39

Right. So Ronnie, who we have mentioned, people who listen to the podcast regularly have heard about because he accompanied me on many of the shenanigans of having cancer. He was often along for the ride.

Matthew David 59:57

I knew that.

Leah Jones 59:58

He was my original hospital husband, which is people that took me to the hospital. Any man who went with me to the hospital was immediately turned into my husband by the nurses. And any woman who took me to the hospital was not immediately upgraded to wife. So it was just funny. So I made people that said, today's hospital husband, so that they could claim the role, that they were.

Matthew David 1:00:31

I know that while this was nothing that Ronnie would ever want to do. I know that it was something that he was proud to be able to do and glad to be able to do for you. Even if nobody wants to have to do that. And you probably, can't do better than Ronnie, which is not to disparage any of your other husbands or hospital sisters or what have you. But…

Leah Jones 1:00:56

My hospital husbands and Sister Wives.

Matthew David 1:00:59

So I know, Ronnie and I went to college together and I've known Ronnie for 27 years. And I may officially make this the last time that I say this, because it's getting a bit old. But Ronnie and I did not like each other, when we first met. And we reminisce about this. And I think as the years have gone by, especially the most recent years, I think both gotten a little tired of remembering that we didn't like each other when we first met. So we've been very much moving the emphasis from that mutual dislike to how good friends we are. How do I want to say that? What good friends, we are now. And Ronnie is, this may be where Ronnie finds out about this. But Ronnie is one of my best friends. Ronnie would be anyone's best friend. And the problem was, when we first met, he was probably the best friend of the guy that I want it to be my best friend. So we were essentially competing for the attentions of a mutual friend.

Leah Jones 1:02:15

Have you now ousted the middle guy? And now you're just friends with each other.

Matthew David 1:02:19

No, we're all friends. But Ronnie and I probably do keep in touch more. But the three of us are all very good friends. And in fact, the three of us got together last summer with two other friends, two female friends of ours, five of us got together. Not this past summer, but the summer before, they all came out to Long Island where I am. It was very convenient for me. Not so much for them. But you know,

Leah Jones 1:02:43

You are the person who lives on an island.

Matthew David 1:02:47

I live in an island and island of 6 million but still. We all got an Airbnb, and Ronnie's brother happened to be in the neighborhood. So it worked out very well for Ronnie. Ronnie got to see friends and family. And we all got to see Ronnie and yes, that mutual friend. We've all been friends for 27 years since we started college and Ronnie and our friend Brad were two of my first friends in college and I don't remember when the shift took place because again, we're not we're not focusing on that.

Leah Jones 1:03:19

You are not focusing on that, I have heard stories of pun competition. Like a pun. Pun off maybe. And I don't know, if that means might just be the life, that might just be the story of your friendship. Is there a lot of puns, lot of work.

Matthew David 1:03:35

There are. There is a lot of wordplay and Ronnie and I make a lot of puns, a lot of wordplay in our emails, in our chats, and texts and Ronnie calls me every year on my birthday. He is the only person besides my mom. Ronnie does that. He's a caller.

Leah Jones 1:03:55

He has a caller and he is a birthday…

Matthew David 1:03:57

No, he's excellent at remembering birthdays. And I think this year might be the first time, I didn't let it go to voicemail. Because I felt, he finally earned it. He'd been calling me so many years and I've been just pretending not to be near my phone for so long. This podcast might be the end of our friendship as it turns out, we had a good run, Ronnie. We had a really good run. So but Ronnie is great. And at some point, Ronnie became someone that I would send every new thing that I've written to. He is one of my first readers. And he's an excellent first reader. In fact, just to loop back a little bit, Ronnie was at first didn't want to but then realized, he had to point out a problem with an earlier version of Odder Space. There was something a bit sensitive, that the details aren't important, but he was on the fence about whether to bring it up or not. And I'm glad he did, because it's a much better book for not just blowing past it, but hanging a lantern or putting a hat on this topic. And that's the only thing that might be considered, one of those more serious things. But it's still, it doesn't elevate it to any territory. But there's a little bit of a life slash history lesson that it's not dwelt upon, but it is touched upon. And it was, Ronnie, and another one of our friends from that group of five who really made me think about it. And it was a little eye opening because I was kind of treating something a little flippantly. And I was glad that they didn't take offense. But they said, hey, someone could, and maybe don't present it this way. And it was fairly easy. Not that I wouldn't have done it, if it weren't easy, but it was the the solution presented itself pretty readily take this and turn it into a learning moment. And I was very, I still am really grateful that he did not say anything for fear of like bugging me. I mean, he probably remembered Hey, this guy used to hate me. So what's the worst that could happen now?

Leah Jones 1:06:43

It's always a risk.

Matthew David 1:06:45

I don't think, we're going to move backward. So Ronnie is a great guy. I strongly recommend Ronnie to everyone. So Glengarry Glen Ross, and then call Ronnie at 1888, Ronnie.

Leah Jones 1:07:05

  1. It's my birthday. . He will always call on your birthday.

Matthew David 1:07:15

I'd love to tell something embarrassing about Ronnie, but I don't know anything embarrassing about Ronnie. I don't know that he's ever shared anything embarrassing about him. He probably must have. But I probably filter that out and I just think of it only glowing terms.

Leah Jones 1:07:42

I think the other thing to wrap it up that I'm curious about and we're going to hold some that you're going to come back. Are you excited? Bands with Letters for names specifically REM ecstasy and TMGB ?

Matthew David 1:08:00

They Might Be Giants. So one, that's a little bit of a cheat because we call them TMBG. But really, it's They Might Be Giants. So the rule of three, you got to have a third. But I don't specifically like bands with names that are letters. It just happens that three of my favorite bands. And it has been this way for a long time, our REM, XTC, and They Might Be Giants. And again, nobody needs me to tell them about any of these bands. If you're going to go discover REM because of me telling you then there's a problem. That said, if you are not familiar with REM, XTC, or They Might Be Giants, please do check them out. And I will say this

Leah Jones 1:08:51

I am very much realizing XTC is [Not Audible]. Who is a female Hip Hop band, I thought it was?

Matthew David 1:08:58

The female hip hop at TLC? I'm a fan of TLC, but not in the way.

Leah Jones 1:09:06

Now I just want you to go into my brain and replace XTC with TLC and see how what an interesting mix of music it was, when it was REM, TLC and They Might Be Giants, as your top three bands, on everything we knew already about Mamet and just how confused that was.

Matthew David 1:09:27

Which is not to say that we don't sometimes ask Alexa to play TLC, which I might actually just have inadvertently done by saying that. Fortunately, I'm far enough away from the speaker that you won't hear them but no, XTC was a band from the late 70s, well into the early 90s, which started out as five guys and gradually was whittled down to two. Most people, if they know anything about XTC know the songs Making Plans for Nigel, which was probably their biggest hit, although I don't think it was their best song, and Dear God, or The Ballad of Peter Pumpkin Head or the Mayor of Simpleton. Okay, Leah, you have a lot of work to do. You might need to take tomorrow off from work.

Leah Jones 1:10:25

Okay, here's Making Plans for Nigel.

Matthew David 1:10:28

Yes.

Leah Jones 1:10:37

So in 2016, it ranked 143 on pitchforks list of the 200 best songs of the 1970s. So did it have a maybe a second?

Matthew David 1:10:53

I don't know that XTC had a resurgence. They've pretty much been defunct since, I want to say, very early 2000s. And they're not coming back. Again, by the end, it was just two of them. And I'm pretty sure that the two of them don't speak anymore. But the engine behind the XTC was always, a man named Andy Partridge. I believe he turns 70. In fact, there was just an article in The Guardian, I think it was an interview with him catching up with him and what

Leah Jones 1:11:34

November 11th was his birthday. He'll be 69.

Matthew David 1:11:37

So he will be 70 next year. Andy Partridge is the main songwriter and the lead singer and he is just a gift. And he's got some, I don't know, there was something about his politics a few years ago that got him into a little bit of trouble and I've kind of turned a blind eye deaf ear to what his politics are. I don't know for certain that they're not in line with mine. And I don't want to know. I confess to being willfully ignorant. Because I simply do not want to have to be unhappy with the man, I think is the greatest songwriter that we've ever had, was the greatest modern day English songwriter. I don't know many others in other languages, but

Leah Jones 1:12:38

He has Synesthesia , which is always interesting to talk to people about.

Matthew David 1:12:42

Yes. I can't speak to his Synesthesia. It sounds kind of purple to me. But Ronnie, you'll appreciate that.

Leah Jones 1:12:52

I missed the drum, way, way. Wait, it sounds can't wait. Where is it? I going to find it.

Matthew David 1:12:58

Tell me when it's queued up. I can't speak to Andy Partridges Synesthesia. All sounds purple to me.

Leah Jones 1:13:11

A little bit of a lag, doesn't need a one second.

Matthew David 1:13:15

We could have heard all of Making Plans for Nigel to get that time. But are we talking about purple? I like purple. Or do you guys know about purple? It's a big color.

Leah Jones 1:13:28

Yeah, a big fan of purple before I went to Northwestern, but like the more after.

Matthew David 1:13:32

It’s a charming color, it’s deep, deep purple. So Andy Partridge XTC, love them really sophisticated songwriting. And I think a few years ago, I started making a list of what I thought were the best pop or rock lyrics, song lyrics, and I came up with such gems as like, doo doo doo doo by the police, dadada. But I think, the first prize goes to Andy Partridge for a lyric in the song, The man who murdered love, which might have been on their last album, either their last or second to last. And the line is, it's the middle of the song. In the middle of the song right about at the instrumental break, he sings it's the middle of the song. Genius, songwriting genius. And it's subtle. It's not easy to hear. And once I realized that what he was saying, that was just that took it to a ticket to David my Mission proportions. David met Median levels.

Leah Jones 1:14:53

When we were kids, when we would our grandparents retired to Texas so we would drive from Indiana to Texas to see them.

Matthew David 1:15:01

Just to clarify, not our grandparents, yours and mine. We don't have any grandparents in common?

Leah Jones 1:15:07

Not that we know of.

Matthew David 1:15:08

Correct. So you and someone else used to drive to Texas to see your grandparents.

Leah Jones 1:15:14

To the Jones, drive to Texas.

Matthew David 1:15:18

Was everybody behind you trying to keep up with you?

Leah Jones 1:15:21

Especially in the years when we drove a hearse to Texas.

Matthew David 1:15:24

Really? You should have a podcast.

Leah Jones 1:15:28

And so we're looking at the Atlas. Because it was map, paper Atlas, You drove cross country at the time. And we kept joking that we were about to get to the staple. We're going to get to the staple in the map. And when we got there, we passed a ranch, whose gate looked like a staple. It was so we were like, we're at the staple . And we looked over and there was a gigantic staple in front of a ranch.

Matthew David 1:16:00

And if that's the sort of thing that you would do on purpose. If you knew that there was if there was one Atlas, or one map that most people had, the Rand McNally Road Atlas. And you saw that you had the property that was by the staple, I would have to do that. Like there's almost no amount of money that I wouldn't spend. There's no such thing as too much money to spend on that joke.

Leah Jones 1:16:26

It's a great joke. And we, I mean, it has been, I don't know how many years? So 30 years ago, I was 15. So, oh, my God, probably like 35 years ago.

Matthew David 1:16:44

Wow.

Leah Jones 1:16:47

It was really in that to me is at the level of it's the middle of the song, Where's this staple in the Atlas? And you'd look up and you see a literal giant staple, like it's

Matthew David 1:16:57

It’s the Swing line wrench. It's like you press button on patronizing laughter. Hit that clip. He's telling a joke here.

Leah Jones 1:17:16

Just keeps going. It goes too long. Like the drum joke starts too late. And the lighting just goes too long.

Matthew David 1:17:22

Did you pay for these? These sound clips?

Leah Jones 1:17:27

They came with it. I paid for Riverside as a service. And these are the bonuses. I feel like these are bonuses. Well, Matthew, this has been fun.

Matthew David 1:17:39

This has been a laugh riot. No, I've thoroughly enjoyed this. And I look forward to recording our next episode tomorrow. And our third one tomorrow afternoon.

Leah Jones 1:17:48

Great. In between, I will go vote. I tried to vote.

Matthew David 1:17:53

Oh, that's a good plan.

Leah Jones 1:17:55

I did try to vote.

Matthew David 1:18:01

Try harder now.

Leah Jones 1:18:02

I will. I got there. And it was an hour wait for early voting.

Matthew David 1:18:06

That's interesting. I was just talking to someone before this session about voting and waiting in lines. And I don't think in all my years of voting, I'm in my late 40s, so I've been voting for like two or three years. And in all my years of voting, I don't remember ever having to wait on election day. Maybe I've just gotten very lucky or I lived in very efficient places. But I know that of course, waiting in lines, and especially in rural places and other places around the country can be a significant problem and is a significant problem. And I realized that this is maybe just where I've lived on Long Island in New Jersey and Boston, but I've never had to wait, if there's ever been a wait, it was just a couple of people. And I've never felt like, it was a shore or I was going to be here for a long time. And I had to make a decision about, is this how I wanted to spend my time? And only recently have I been thinking about that as a problem for people like you've been waiting in line an hour, that's an hour out of your day. And a lot of people don't have an hour to just stand there waiting to do something that takes 30 seconds. As important as it is, there's an analysis you have to do and I've never factored that in. I've also never, I've also always thought of it as something that's so important that it doesn't matter if I have to wait. I'm going to wait.

Leah Jones 1:19:35

Yeah, I agree, if I have to wait, I'm going to wait. It's a beautiful sunny day in Chicago today, which is great. It's great weather for voting, it is great weather to get out of the house. And I went to an early voting site, and I was truly everybody who got there was like, Whoa, this is the Whoa, right? And so I can just get up early on Tuesday and go across the street to my precinct and just vote. Get in and out. 15 minutes. But it's also the first time, I voted since I have not. I can't. I can no longer stand for an hour like as I regain my strength after chemotherapy, like I can't actually stand in line for an hour, and I had my cane, but I have like, Birkenstocks on and I just like didn't think through. Like, do I have the best shoes on? Do I have like a little stool with me? Like, I didn't think through what I needed to have with me to safely wait in line for an hour?

Matthew David 1:20:37

Sure. I think at this point, we will wind up voting on Tuesday, because I believe, we're going to vote at our children's school. And we're going on for parent teacher conferences. I mean, this is all designed this way. The schools out kids will be with us. We're going in for two conferences. We vote there. It's all actually very convenient. And I don't imagine that we're going to have to wait. But if we do, we do. And we did. We meant to vote early. But we kept not voting early. But, that runs out on Tuesday anyway, so by Tuesday, we will have voted.

Leah Jones 1:21:23

Yeah, the good news is I did my cheat sheet because we have to vote for Judge Retention in Chicago and it's very confusing. And in general, retain him, except for these five. But it's five out of 40. So you like going to find their names.

Matthew David 1:21:40

Wow. We don't have that here in New York. At least I don't believe we do. Caller I might correct. No. So yeah, no, it's a little simpler. But that, I don't I've never needed to really prepare much in advance. I'm pretty much an across the board in a straight line.

Leah Jones 1:22:01

Yeah, I am to the things I want to understand are there's like an amendment on the ballot, like the things that are always written to, to make you vote the opposite way that you believe. So I wanted to make sure I knew the right. Yeah, the vote and correctly on those.

Matthew David 1:22:20

Yes, that's important. And that's not enough people take that time. That's exactly as you say, there's a way to work things so that it takes advantage of the fact that people are not preparing in advance. And, back of the ballot may not even like, my wife and I were just talking that there is one proposition on our ballot that we will need to remember to turn the piece of paper over for. And that's a lot of work. I mean, imagine having to wait in line and turn your piece of paper over. Come on. I could be doing other things. I could be watching Glengarry Glen Ross or listening to TLC.

Leah Jones 1:22:58

So Matthew David Brozik, The novel is Odder Space. It's available now on Amazon in print or digital. We want people to get print to see those nice, nice chapter headings. Do you want people to keep up with you online? How do you want people to know about you in the future?

Matthew David 1:23:16

I haven't been that. I don't know. I don't have that much to say or report on a day-to-day basis that most people would be interested in. Maybe if this book blows up as one of the spaceships does, then I'll need to. Funny thing is about two weeks ago, I had already shut down my personal Twitter account, not for to make any statement. I just got tired of it. And then about two weeks ago, in preparation for the launch of this book, I set up a new Twitter account. But I'm not even going to bother to tell you the handle because I literally have not posted one thing on it. So there's no reason to follow me in any meaningful way. I post on Facebook, I'm not doing anything on other social media. No, Insta, no TikTok. Because I'm not that interesting, If you don't know me. If you like to know more, you can always visit IMDB dot name and there's a link to send me an email. We can be email friends, and then they can become your birthday friend. And my phone number is 516. Now that's all you're getting. You already know I live on Long Island. So I got that. Tony 516 area code.

Leah Jones 1:24:55

Very fancy. Well, my cat cowboy has John Time to my computer to tell me, it's I believe dinnertime or something with the time change. But Matthew, this has been a delight. Thank you so much.

Matthew David 1:25:06

Likewise. Thank you.

Announcer 1:25:08

Thank you for listening to Finding Favorites with Leah Jones. Please make sure to subscribe and drop us a five-star review on iTunes. Now go out and enjoy your favorite things.

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เนื้อหาจัดทำโดย Leah Jones เนื้อหาพอดแคสต์ทั้งหมด รวมถึงตอน กราฟิก และคำอธิบายพอดแคสต์ได้รับการอัปโหลดและจัดเตรียมโดย Leah Jones หรือพันธมิตรแพลตฟอร์มพอดแคสต์โดยตรง หากคุณเชื่อว่ามีบุคคลอื่นใช้งานที่มีลิขสิทธิ์ของคุณโดยไม่ได้รับอนุญาต คุณสามารถปฏิบัติตามขั้นตอนที่อธิบายไว้ที่นี่ https://th.player.fm/legal

Long Island-based author and humorist Matthew David Brozik is on Finding Favorites to talk about his favorite things - potato chips, sleeping and super heroes. More specifically, the last ten minutes of the 1992 movie Glengarry, Glen Ross. We also talk about REM, XTC and TMBG... and TLC.

Matthew's new book Odder Space is available on Amazon in print and digital (though he'd really rather you choose the print copy). Odder Space is a humorous upper middle grade sci-fi novel with awe-inspiring spaceships, belligerent aliens, phlazer battles, pseudoscientific gobbledygook, and an artificial intelligence with a serious morale problem... but also spunk, heart, and some important life lessons. Mostly it’s just a lot of fun.

Keep up with Matthew at IMDB.name

Show Links

Matthew David Brozik_mixdown

1:25:24

SPEAKERS

Announcer, Leah Jones, Matthew David Brozik

Matthew David 00:00

Hello, my name is Matthew David Brozik and my favorite thing is, Glengarry Glen Ross.

Announcer 00:06

Welcome to the Finding Favorites Podcast, where we explore your favorite things without using an algorithm. Here's your host, Leah Jones.

Leah Jones 00:19

Hello, and welcome to Finding Favorites. I'm your host, Leah Jones. It is Sunday, November 6, 2022. In a couple hours, I'll be sitting down with Matthew David Brozik to interview him about his new book, Odder Space and his favorite things. But in order to get this episode out before midnight, I thought I would record my introduction first. So I don't know what Matthew and I will have talked about. What a week it's been! Last Sunday, after I published my episode with Eden, I went to see; How Did This Get Made, Live. I talked about that a lot in the upfront last week that it was, how did this get live was back at the Chicago theater that I had seen Hrishikesh Hirway, and Jenny Owen Youngs earlier in the week at sleeping village, the tote bag, that joke, my reverse merging two celebrity podcasters and straight up celebrities. And when Jocelyn and I went to How Did This Get Made? We were in the third row, even with Jason Mantzoukas. And throughout the show he talked to me a few times, and ended the show by asking me the name on my podcast and recommending it to everyone, who was left in the Chicago theater as the night wound down. And I've spent the whole week recovering from that it was really exciting. And I don't know, if he'd actually got the tote bag or not? I guess it means enough to me that he knows it exists and probably saw a picture from Hrishi. I did get it on stage, thanks to my friend Jocelyn. When you listen to the Morbius episode, maybe you'll hear a little bit of that interaction. But I doubt it. You might hear my question. I think my question will probably make the episode but that's about it. But it was just really cool. I've been a big fan of, How Did This Get Made, for many years now, five or six years. I just have a really clear memory of being at a happy hour, after a leadership retreat at a previous employer, before I was laid off, which would have made me, I think 39 or 40 at the time. It's such a weird, clear memory, explaining How Did This Get Made and who Jason Mantzoukas wasn't what they knew him from, which at the time was mostly the league. Anyway, that happened, that was huge. I finally got the results of my ADHD evaluation, which I will take to the rest of my medical team and see what we can do with it. Essentially, I would have ADHD exclamation point, if I hadn't had the last two years of cancer, and the sarcoidosis diagnosis, because they can never separate out the impact of sarcoidosis on my brain from my current cognitive functioning. But essentially all signs point to ADHD, except for that 4 MRIs of my brain that point to sarcoidosis. So hopefully, I will get to try. I'll start working specifically on some ADHD interventions and maybe try some medication. But it was frustrating. It's such a good professional that I worked with to get this evaluation. But I am very frustrated that I continue to be someone who is considered a complex patient with complex medical history. When I'm like no, no, no, I was really good until I was like 39 and then you know like it's just been a hard few years but that doesn't mean it's complex forever, but it kind of does. So that's just frustrating hard to come to terms with. He also recommended that I find a health psychologist somewhere to start working through the trauma of the cancer diagnosis, even though it was stage one and it was an “easy” (you know, quote unquote easy) treatment that I still like clearly have a lot of anxiety left over from as I come out of this year and a year half of cancer treatment. I am going to try and go vote midterms are on Tuesday. So I have gone through all of the election mailers in my mailbox and found some of the most useful ones, made some notes on it. And I'm going to go vote in between recording this and then talking to Matthew later this afternoon. It was spring forward fall back. Most of the clocks in my house have changed. Some have not, some are now three hours off. I don't know, how they even got two hours off. I mean, it's just been, what a huge week. It's just been a big week, but also feels kind of like nothing has happened. It is finally fall weather in Chicago. Climate change has kept it a very warm fall. We had beautiful colors but because of it but 70 degrees and November was unsettling. So the incredible winds that we get rains, we got this weekend felt a little bit more appropriate to the season. I don't know with that. I am buying myself another T-shirt quilt because I am also recovering from bronchitis this week. But as part of that, they put me on steroids. And so I suddenly have a lot of energy that I haven't had in months. And so, I tackled my out-of-control shelves and dug out 16 T-shirts to turn into a T-shirt quilt, which opens up room for more appropriate clothing that I need to wear this winter. So I'm sending off T-shirts to memory stitch again. And I don't know, I guess, it's not a nothing happened week. It's a lot of things happen. With that, I hope that you get out and vote that you're voting for Democrats that you're voting in support of access to health care workers’ rights, unions, bodily autonomy, access to free devoting, access to the social safety net, increased taxes, wash your hands, wear your mask, get your booster, get your flu shot, and keep enjoying your favorite things.

Leah Jones 08:00

Hello, and welcome to Finding Favorites. I'm your host, Leah Jones. And this is the podcast where we learn about people's favorite things and get recommendations without using an algorithm. Today, I am talking with Matthew David Brozik. Matthew and I have been online friends now for a very long time and have never actually spoken to each other. But we have a common, we've got one friend in common. I think only one. And that's how we know each other. But Dave, what Matthew? Are you doing this afternoon?

Matthew David 08:31

I'm doing very well. Thank you. I'm doing great. And I just want to mention that this is my first time as a podcast guest.

Leah Jones 08:40

What?

Matthew David 08:42

And yeah, I know. Can you believe that with a voice like this?

Leah Jones 08:43

Truly, with a voice like this. The Microphone?

Matthew David 08:47

Exactly. The microphone belongs to my wife. I had to dig it out of a closet. But where I put it, actually, I put it in the closet. So I was the only one, who knew where it was. And being very interesting, which…

Leah Jones 09:02

I will come to find out. I know that you're interesting on Facebook. And I know that you have stayed friends with Ronnie for longer than anyone should. So I suspect, you're funny and interesting.

Matthew David 09:17

I am, as is Ronnie and we'll talk about Ronnie in a minute because that's really, he's looking forward to that. It's not going to be interesting to anybody else in the world, but our mutual friends. So I just wanted to say because I've never been on a podcast and I assume this is going to be a nerve-racking experience. I poured myself a cocktail as one does, and I made sure to put in a generous amount of ice both so that I don't fall asleep in 20 minutes. And so that you hear the tinkling of ice cubes, right, but now I'm afraid, afraid might not be the word, concerned that the tinkling won't be sufficient, so please, would you add some ice tinkling in post. Just to make sure because that's the kind of podcast guest I want people to think of me as. That sounds more like applause.

Leah Jones 10:12

That was applause.

Matthew David 10:14

That was applause.

Leah Jones 10:15

I have cheering, clapping, laughing, drum rolls.

Matthew David 10:18

But no ice tinkling?

Leah Jones 10:20

No Ice tinkling.

Matthew David 10:21

All right, well.

Leah Jones 10:22

So, I'll see, what I can find.

Matthew David 10:24

I'll send you something, if need be.

Leah Jones 10:22

A clean sample.

Matthew David 10:31

Yes. Actual ice tinkle. Yes, I will. You know, the last time I sent someone tinkle. The feds showed up at my... Okay, so we're talking about, oh, so here's the other reason that I was nervous. I'm not actually but as your audience knows, probably better than I do. This is a show about favorites. And the conceit is brilliant. It's somewhat reactionary to algorithms. And the idea is an interesting and or available person comes on and recommends, suggests things that they like, and I sent you an initial list of things that I like. And I was then embarrassed by my list because I realized that so many of the things that I like are things that people already know about, and I felt wow, this is going to be awful. If I just recommend things to people, do you like Ghostbusters? Have you ever heard of that? Because or like, oh, what's

Leah Jones 11:37

It’s an independent film from the 80s. You would really say that, New York is the character in the movie.

Matthew David 11:44

There are four or five, six main characters, but also Manhattan is as much of a character in Ghostbusters, as it is in such other films as say, Manhattan. But, we're just without the luxury. So I started thinking about things that I like, and I realized, I really like a lot of things that everybody also likes. And I thought, wow, what a terrific guest I would be, if I just start recommending things like Star War.

Leah Jones 12:19

The Avengers, Star Wars

Matthew David 12:20

Do you like Spiderman?

Leah Jones 12:23

Have you ever heard [Not audible [00:12:25]]?

Matthew David 12:25

And then because I have problems and everything is a joke to me. I started thinking, what if I came on and really committed to this bit, where I just recommended things like money or potato chips. And I like just sincerely suggested, hey, do you guys have you heard of sleeping? It's amazing at the end of the day.

Leah Jones 12:50

Yeah. I could straight up talk to you for an hour about sleeping because one; What sheets are you using these days?

Matthew David 12:57

I think, they're all cotton maybe bamboo or we have a wide variety, we have eight pillows, there's two of us. The Mrs. and I, we have eight pillows, so eight pillowcases because you know we [Not audible[00:13:10]]

Leah Jones 13:10

Are they [Not audible] or are they acrylic like what like in Memory foam.

Matthew David 13:15

You know, it's I think we have one of everything. Like we definitely have and this isn't necessarily a recommendation but [Not audible] I will recently bought. No we bought a Helix mattress and I assume; I'm allowed to name names because we're Finding Favorites and I do like it very much. I don't know that I go out of my way to recommend it because I don't sleep on that many different mattresses especially now that I'm married. So you know, stick to the one that we have. But we did upgrade recently from a spring mattress to whatever this other kind is considered just no springs.

Leah Jones 13:52

I just got, I have a totally Instagram bed now. So I have the Thuma bed frame, which I am obsessed with. It's the one that is essentially Lincoln Logs, but like it's Japanese engineering, adult tinker toys. There are two screws in the whole thing. It's just well for the joints. Beautiful. I have the Big Fig Mattress, which is specifically a mattress for heavier people. I am obsessed with sheets from a company called Comphy. They make sheets for Spas. So it's meant to be like massage tables are meant to be washed all the time and every time you wash them they get softer.

Matthew David 14:41

Do you have a guest bedroom?

Leah Jones 14:42

Ideal.

Matthew David 14:43

Can I visit?

Leah Jones 14:44

You may.

Matthew David 14:45

Is it a fancy? Like I realized, it's not going to be as nice?

Leah Jones 14:48

Not as nice but they are quality sheets. I upgraded to like a bamboo, a bamboo sheet for that. And then I've got a really nice T-shirt quilt with like fleece on one side and T-shirt, which I think is a perfect quilt.

Matthew David 15:02

That sounds terrific. We don't have anything. This might be, why I don't sleep very well. And worrying about being interesting on a podcast.

Leah Jones 15:13

So I guess, what I'm saying is even if you'd come to me with sleep and potato chips, I have a potato chip, I tried last night. I think, I threw the bag away. But it is a new, it's Lay's. And it is the shape of a checks. But it is big.

Matthew David 15:32

It's like square? Like a pillow? Gotcha.

Leah Jones 15:36

A potato chip. So it's like a potato chip Poof. It's like only the ridges woven together into a salty poof. It is amazing.

Matthew David 15:45

Anyway, yeah. So it sounds like you live a very pillow rich life.

Leah Jones 15:50

Pillow rich life, snack rich life, Lot of candy. I do what I can.

Matthew David 15:56

You like candy? And have you heard of Halloween?

Leah Jones 16:01

Do I have a second podcast called Candy Chat Chicago.

Matthew David 16:05

Oh, that's right. You know what, and Ronnie, who we still have not explained to anyone mentioned that to me when I told him. So as soon as you invited me. I immediately then emailed Ronnie. And you don't let's not tell anybody who Ronnie is. Let's just get go and just let them try to figure it out. And, I said, oh, so Leah asked me to be on our podcast. And I'm really excited. And he said which one? And I was like, I Okay, you lost me. And he said, I assume it's the Finding Favorites, unless it's the candy one. So that's how I immediately knew that you had a second podcast. I mean, most people, and I don't know, if you know this, but I did some research. Most people don't even have one podcast. Although we're getting to that point where I guess on your typical person, does have one.

Leah Jones 16:57

You, typical person has a podcast that stops at six episodes.

Matthew David 17:02

What number is this? Seven?

Leah Jones 17:05

Seven.

Matthew David 17:06

Okay.

Leah Jones 17:08

Number Seven, 137 something like that. In the range.

Matthew David 17:13

That is impressive. I am impressed. Color me impressed.

Leah Jones 17:17

So Matthew, you have a book just launched?

Matthew David 17:22

I do under launch.

Leah Jones 17:23

Odder space.

Matthew David 17:23

I shouldn't talk over you.

Leah Jones 17:27

It's fine.

Matthew David 17:28

You're pushing my book, and I'm speaking over you.

Leah Jones 17:33

So you've just launched Odder Space. And it is an upper grade sci-fi adventure, upper middle grade. It’s different than, why?

Matthew David 17:43

It is. And maybe, I shouldn't confess that I'm fairly new to this age range. As far as writing, I'm not new to the actual age range, because I am in my late 40s. So I passed through these ages.

Leah Jones 17:56

You survived them.

Matthew David 17:57

I did. But I used to, and still do write for adults, I don't write adult literature. But I didn't write for the younger set, as we might say. But a good friend of mine, who does write for middle grade students, twisted my arm and got me to start writing for younger readers. And so I learned very quickly what the gradations are there, and YA is probably what most people are most familiar with. Because the A and YA, obviously is adult and young adult novels are fairly popular with adult readers as well. And they tend to be at least one serious theme, whether it be death or disease or sexuality. And I have no interest in any of those things. I have no interest in death, or dying, or sexuality, just in my actual life, not just reading about them. So I aimed a little lower, not in terms of quality, clearly, well, not clearly. But in terms of grade and reading level, not coincidentally, because my daughter is now 10 and I wrote a first children's novel two years ago, and she was my main audience. So that was solidly middle grade, which is a little younger than YA and tends to be defined by not having anything serious, not having any adult.

Leah Jones 19:34

Not having a dark theme or heavy life lesson.

Matthew David 19:37

But they are chapter books that typically are geared toward the middle grade sets, a figure middle school or like fifth grade to seventh grade and then upper middle grade would be, just shift that up one or two years. And the rule of thumb, which again, I learned a couple of years ago is that younger readers tend to prefer their protagonists about a year older than they are. So I didn't necessarily set out to write an upper middle grade novel with Odder Space, I think, I first decided the age of the protagonist. And he is a 13 year old boy. At this point, as we sit here, and I reminisce about the past couple of years of writing this book, I don't remember why I decided that he would be 13. But it seemed that I needed him to be in a certain place at a certain time, and the certain places outer space on a spaceship.

Leah Jones 20:45

In time reference

Matthew David 20:47

Exactly right. Yes, that, you know, that's what's missing. That'll be in the sequel. God willing. And so then once I determined that he was going to be 13, then I realized, okay, this is firmly upper middle grade. So I'm saying 9 to 13 is the audience but, most of my read, I mean, all of my first readers are adults. They're my friends, including Ronnie. The aforementioned and soon to be mentioned again, many times, Ronnie, who has read the book, at least twice. And so my readers have been, again, adults, but and then my daughter read a proof. And she stayed up reading it. She didn't originally find it very interesting in manuscript form. But then I got a proof of the book, asked her to read it, it felt like a book that may have made a difference, just the size, instead of reading a manuscript on 8 and a half by 11, cheap white paper, she was holding a paperback. And I was very flattered. When early the next morning, she burst into my bedroom, which we were talking about earlier, you and I, your audience will recall, there's a bed with sheets. And actually she burst into the room and she said, Dad, your book is great. And I said, get out of my room. I'm trying to sleep. And I said, No, thank you. That's really wonderful, that means so much to me. I said, did you read the whole thing? She said, I couldn't put it down. I read the whole thing. I stayed up. And I read it. And I didn't even want to put it down to go to the bathroom. And I said being a good parent. I said, well, you know, you should put a book down and go to the bathroom if you need to. And she said, Oh, I went to the bathroom. I just took the book with me.

Leah Jones 22:48

That is the ultimate compliment.

Matthew David 22:51

It is. It really is. And then I said okay, you hold on to that copy. And please, just don't put that on a shelf and put it back on the communal, don't put it back. Exactly. Keep that off the coffee table in the living room. So Odder Space is an upper middle grade sci-fi book. It's humorous. It is very much in the general Star Trek vein in that the all of the action or most of the action takes place on a spaceship. And we were joking earlier about the New York City being as much of a character and as any Star Trek fan knows the Starship Enterprise or other ships are a character and Odder Space takes it a little further in that the ship called the Amity because the powers that be didn't want to call it the starship friendship, because that would sound ridiculous. So they called it the starship Amity has a personality. It has an artificial intelligence on board named MANI it's an acronym MANI - Mail Automated Networked Interface. And MANI is very much a character with a personality and a problem. Manny is very sad. So that was really the genesis of this book. I was thinking about classic science fiction adventures like Star Trek, like Star Wars, like Battlestar Galactica, like the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. And I made a list of what made each of them unique. What was the driving force of each of them and they were all slightly different? And I realized that there was a sort of an opening for a different approach, which is, what if a crew were on a spaceship and the ship itself were their biggest problem? And that led me to the idea of an artificial intelligence that just doesn't want to do its job anymore? And I was thinking, why would that be? And I don't want to give anything away. And I'm not going to, but essentially, just before the opening of the book, there's a catastrophe that really depresses the AI on the ship. And that leads to, well, I want to say hilarity and also other things. And that's the premise of the book. And I decided to write it.

Leah Jones 25:14

It's an AI that has a different goals than How(couldn’t understand the movie name) from 2001?

Matthew David 25:20

Yes, in fact, again, without going into too much detail, you might even say a completely different goal, because How(couldn’t understand the movie name) entire goal was self-preservation. And this is an AI that basically has given up and doesn't want to go on. He has suffered a loss, that only he really feels it in a way that none of the humans on board feel and he just doesn't want to go on. And, the only one who really connects with him is the main character Jeremy, who goes by his nickname Jerm, which is a bit ironic because his mother is the doctor on the ship. And just circling back to the Star Trek, I had an immediate reservation, of course, because the kid on Star Trek The Next Generation, Wesley Crusher, played by Wil Wheaton was the female ship doctor's son. And that's the exact scenario that we have here. And I wondered, hey, is that going to be to derivative? And then ultimately, I said, you know, what? It's fine. And chances are most 9 to 13 year old readers these days. We're not watching Star Trek The Next Generation, and just won't make the Westlake Crusher connection.

Leah Jones 26:46

And if their parents read it and catch a nod to it, great. Something they recognize.

Matthew David 26:52

And in fact, there are plenty of I don't want to say Easter Eggs, but there are plenty of nods to Star Trek and other classic sci-fi properties in there. There's a very central key piece of equipment onboard the Amity, called a spectrometer. And it's a mass spectrometer and one of the problems is that they haven't worked out all the Kirk's in the mass spectrometer yet. So there's a great deal of wordplay, that it's okay, if the primary audience isn't going to get but spell check certainly didn't get the jokes. But the adults will and I encourage children of all ages, adults of all ages to read well, maybe not children of all ages, but anyone, eight, nine and up, I think they'll get a real kick out of it. And I loved writing it. I'm extraordinarily proud of the book. And I'm excited. I really hope people get to read it. I hope they just do and love it as much as I do.

Leah Jones 28:01

Amazing. So it is available now. People can order it on Amazon. It's also available on Kindle, but they should order the print copy.

Matthew David 28:10

Oh, absolutely. I don't love eBooks. And I'm very glad that Amazon's publishing platform allows now paperback books. And a lot of work went into the book not just writing it but the cover design. The interior was designed. It's a beautiful little book.

Leah Jones 28:32

What chapter headings, did you settle on. Ronnie and I were talking about.

Matthew David 28:37

Oh, numbers. So this was my daughter's actual contribution to the book. I had originally written them out as words, chapter one, chapter two all the way to chapter 20. And hadn't given that a lot of thought even though with each manuscript that I write, I do think about what kind of chapter headings I want. Sometimes they'll be actual names of chapters, sometimes it's just numbers. And this time I had written it out and I don't think I really thought about it until I got the first proof and thought this is an opportunity to maybe, Mary, the chapter headings a little bit more to the to the substance, especially because it was in a nicer font. And I realized, there's nothing special about just writing out Chapter 1, Chapter 20. So I noodle around and I asked my daughter, and I asked Ronnie and some other friends and we had almost settled on spelling out the word chapter and writing the number in numerals. And then my daughter, an actual certified genius. I certified her. I'm certified as a genius certifier. It's a kind of a loop, but she said well, why not just the numbers and is like giant embarrassing light bulb went off over my head and I was like, that is the way to go. But 01,…. So really emphasize that binary computer. And speaking of binary, there was a moment where I very briefly considered putting the numbers in binary and just zeros and ones and then I realized this is that's a bridge too far. So I stopped that probably would have been off putting. There's a time and a place. Actually, Roman numerals would be hilarious. Just completely anachronistic. Just absurd.

Leah Jones 30:33

I inexplicably have you know that song, there's 123456 wheels on a big rig. And then it's like count by twos. There's 2 4 6 8 10 12

Matthew David 30:46

I do not know.

Leah Jones 30:50

So there's a verse of that song.

Matthew David 30:52

That's Pearl Jam?

Leah Jones 30:54

It's Pearl Jam. Covered also by the Beatles.

Matthew David 30:59

Pearl Jam covered by the Beatles. I don't like the way it usually goes. But okay.

Leah Jones 31:03

While it was interesting. And there's one verse of it. It's like Roman numerals. How many wheels on a big rig I IV, VI, VI, VI X X that like, and that is a how I can count to 18 in Roman numerals.

Matthew David 31:20

That's I'm going to have to look up that. So if you can write Beatles, how's that Spelled? B E A T. It's wordplay right?.

Leah Jones 31:31

B E E D Valley, the Beatles

Matthew David 31:35

I'll have to look up that song. See if you can find it and make it like the tag to this.

Leah Jones 31:43

So Odder space available now. People can find out more information on IMDB dot name.

31:50

Matthew David 31:49

Don't go to IMDB.com because I've never been in a movie But with a voice like this. But yes, so IMDb dot name, my own personal and spend some time there, noodle around. There's all sorts of short story, short humor pieces, no videos of cats? I don't like that..

Leah Jones 32:12

Early when we like met, you had published a book called Taking IV Seriously, which you no longer make available?

Matthew David 32:20

Yes.

Leah Jones 32:23

Why? Copyright problem?

Matthew David 32:25

No, it's entirely. [Not Audible] You know what I forgotten about?

Leah Jones 32:32

Honestly, My basic understanding of copyright. Copyright, Infringement, patent law comes from that book. In a previous life, you were a copyright attorney, right?

Matthew David 32:45

Yes, I practiced for a decade and decided to then become a copywriter. Which is very confusing to people who meet me. And it's why I just don't like meeting people anymore. Because I have to explain, because if they've heard even a little bit about me, then I'm already, we're already into deep. They say so you used to be a lawyer. And you did copyright law. And now you're a copywriter. And what's the difference? And I say, who looks really interesting, that guy over there. And when they when they look, I just run usually toward the bar. But yes, I published a novella, it was the first thing that I published. It was the first longer piece of fiction that I wrote, longer than any short story, but not quite novel length. And I like it very much. And it was something I labored on for about 10 years. And I had started, when I was in Law school. And I think, I never quite cracked it. I never quite solved it. And even though I released it, I reached a point or there came a time when it was no longer being purchased. And I think I released it maybe seven, eight years ago, I don't honestly don't remember at this point. And maybe even longer than that. It maybe, it was 10 years ago. But as was with most things that had a shelf life. And once it reached the point that whoever was going to buy it had bought it. I started thinking this is not necessarily what I want to be representing me anymore, because I had written more and better and longer things. And it bugged me a little bit that it wasn't quite as long as maybe it could or should have been. And I just figured you know, what I can because it was self-published, I can just sort of take it down. And I did and that's not to say that I wouldn't put it back at some point. But it just felt like okay, I'm better represented by everything that I've written and released since then, and there have been a few things. I think, I've got five or six books available. And one of which is a novella intentionally; Danger with a Hard G.

Leah Jones 35:18

Harrison Bennett Novella.

Matthew David 35:20

Yes. Harrison Bennett Novella, the main character is Harrison Dangar Bennett, hence the danger with a Hard G. Something else. Another thing I had a hell of a great time writing. And, but that was intentionally a novella. I just wanted to write a short, tight, sort of comic, hardboiled mystery novel. And I did and there was never a battle for page length or word count. And I never felt like, oh, this is coming in too short. If anything, I tried very hard to keep it to novella length, just get in and get out, make the jokes, hit those beats. And I'm very proud of that. I'm very proud of everything that I've released. But something about IV, I just figured you know, what, maybe I'd like to not take it back. If given the opportunity, I wouldn't go to people's homes and deleted off their Kindle. And that one, in fact, I only released as an eBook. There is no paperback version of that. So I would have to break into people's homes and access their devices. And that's time consuming, honestly.

Leah Jones 36:32

It is, but it gives you the chance to travel the country, travel the world,

Matthew David 36:36

The world? Exactly.

Leah Jones 36:40

According to my inbox that I apparently never clean out, taking IV seriously, was released on September 5, 2013.

Matthew David 36:49

Okay, so 50 years ago. What did you say? 2013?

Leah Jones 36:56

2013, Labor Day.

Matthew David 36:58

Life lifetime ago. That was like, I wasn't, still practicing Law. Maybe I was, I don't know. But at least for at least, four jobs ago. Four copywriting jobs ago.

Matthew David 37:26

So do you want to hear about any of my favorites?

Leah Jones 37:26

Yeah, I was just about to ask you.

Matthew David 37:29

I should let you be in charge. You drive this train.

Leah Jones 37:31

I will do the job of hosting. How about that? I just for the record, the first list you sent me was not like, so common. Words and writing, comedians and jokes. Glen Glengarry Glen Ross, Ecstasy the band and Back to the future. So, other than writing, writing has been pretty well covered because they do interview a lot of authors.

Matthew David 37:58

How dare you?

Leah Jones 37:59

I know. How dare, they're constantly be authors, with books to promote who also have favorite things they want to talk about. But then you're like, okay, in addition to boring things like Star Wars and Ghostbusters, you've got Jeeves and Wooster, The Adult Short Stories of Roald Dahl, Bands with Letters For Names, English Madrigals, The Last 10 Minutes Of Glengarry Glen Ross and really clever comedians,

Matthew David 38:28

Can I ask you have you seen Glengarry Glen Ross? Like are you familiar with the film?

Leah Jones 38:32

I think, Glengarry Glen Ross is like always be selling and shut up and drink the coffee. Right? Like they're angry and they're [Not audible]

Matthew David 38:41

Both wrong. Well, I mean, you were close, but everybody listening is laughing now.

Leah Jones 38:47

Always be closing?

Matthew David 38:48

Always be closing. Excellent. And put that coffee down. Coffee is for closers. But yes, you're familiar enough to make everybody who loves this film cringe and that was excellent. But wait, have you seen it? Or are you just, my voice is cracked.

Leah Jones 39:11

I don't know, if I've seen it or if I just know, it from movie podcasts and Tumblr.

Matthew David 39:15

Wow! We're here now. This is the moment. Glengarry Glen Ross is originally a play by David Mamet. It was successful as a play and mounted, I believe originally both in London and New York, I think first one than the other, and was then fairly quickly adapted into a film, which David Mamet then wrote the screenplay for and the original play. The play is just 2 acts three scenes per act, two locations. The movie is essentially those same two locations with others sprinkled in. He fleshed it out. Added much more dialogue, more characters and famously added Alec Baldwin's character who is a representative of the head office that these salesmen work for, who is sent to their office one night to give them a very abusive, motivational talk.

Leah Jones 40:23

Is he Glengarry Glen Ross?

Matthew David 40:26

No. I hate the title.

Leah Jones 40:31

It’s so hard to say.

Matthew David 40:32

It is. Yes.

Leah Jones 40:33

Glen Garry Glen Ross, Glen Ross.

Matthew David 40:38

No. It's one. Glen Garry is one word. And then Glen Ross, two words, and they refer to two different land. So the salesmen are in the business of selling land, mainly and Florida and Arizona, basically just crappy land that they're selling to unsuspecting. It's like a boiler room operation of selling land. And that's just not worth what they're claiming it is. And Glengarry Farms is one of the parcels or one of the sets of land that they used to sell. And that's referred to at one point, and then, or Glen Ross farms and then Glengarry. Glen Garry is the new set of leads that they got, I literally watched this movie again two days ago, and I'm confused. But the new leads, the Glengarry leads is, what the movie is really all about. They're the new hot leads, the people who might be interested in purchasing land, and the salesmen all want to get their hands on these leads, but they're not allowed, because they're not good enough. So those leads will only go to the closers. And these guys are not. So I hate the title of this movie. And if I ever met David Mamet, and David, if you're listening, please email me. And explain to me why you couldn't have named this play, your play anything else? Or the joke among the actors, I understand was that they used to refer to it as death of a fucking salesman, because there is so much cursing in this. I once brought the DVD with me to work, when I was working on a weekend and I figured, you know what, I'll just, I'll keep this on. I was really just at the office on call more than anything. And I figured, I'll just have this play in the background, and I must have forgotten, how much cursing is there and I didn't have headphones on and just like within the first 30 seconds, I realized, Oh, nope, nope, nope. can't play this at work.

Leah Jones 43:00

Not even on a weekend.

Matthew David 43:02

No, Or at night, but it is. It is. I really, I want you to watch this movie. Tonight. And it just hit a streaming service. With most movies, it comes they come and go off streaming services, and I of course have the DVD, which I didn't buy recently, but and I burned it onto or I ripped it in, it's on my computer. So it goes where I go most part. So I can always just fire up Glengarry Glen Ross. But I think it's on Hulu. So it is so wonderful.

Leah Jones 43:45

Really incredible cast.

Matthew David 43:46

Oh, the cast is phenomenal. And the one problematic thing about it. And this is beyond the scope of this podcast, I'm sure but what's his name? Spacey. Kevin Spacey plays a major role. And I love this movie. And as it happens, one of my other favorite movies is the usual suspects also starring Kevin Spacey. Kevin Spacey in recent years has become problematic. And it always raises the question well, what do you do when you love something that involves or was produced by someone who

Leah Jones 44:22

You later that find out as trash.

Matthew David 44:24

Allegedly trash. We’re talking about a lot of different people.

Leah Jones 44:30

You are Attorney, use the word allegedly.

Matthew David 44:32

No, but I'm saying we don't. Right now we're talking about Kevin Spacey. But it could be anybody. It could be Michael Jackson. It can be what do you do? And do you have a moral obligation to not watch a movie with Kevin Spacey? Do you have an obligation one way or the other to not listen to Michael Jackson's music and I'm of the mind that I know that it's out there. You're not sending money to this person. You're perfect personal, Kevin Spacey is not getting any more money from Glengarry Glen Ross. That's not the way it works. But regardless, there's something out there, I don't think a consumer needs to deprive themselves of the joy of consuming product. I'm not going to deny myself the sheer joy of watching Glengarry Glen Ross, once a week or whatever it is, because Kevin Spacey might be, on our shitless right now. It's for me and I love this movie. I'm going to watch it. But as it happens, two of my favorite movies star Kevin Spacey. He's not one of my favorite actors, as it happens, but he is into my favorite films and I really I like him very much, but I'm not going to go so far as to recommend Kevin Spacey to anybody on this podcast. But as it happens, he's in this film, Jack Lemmon, Al Pacino, Alan Arkin - who is amazing, Ed Harris. Every person in this movie is fantastic. There's one woman, but she's just in the background, is very much a man movie. It's just angry, frustrated, cursing men.

Leah Jones 46:27

1992

Matthew David 46:28

Yeah, it is It stands the test of time, but it's very dated. In that it's men selling land by cold calling prospects. And the play actually took place in the early 80s, I believe. So they needed to even move up the timing when they filmed it. So there's a lot of phone calls, there are payphones in the movie. It's very much a product of its time. But the characterizations and the frustrations and the motivations are timeless. Basically just people having a really shitty two days, partly of their own making.

Leah Jones 47:13

And then but specifically, you love the last 10 minutes. We confirmly go into the spoilers on this movie is, 1992 to 2002. So it's almost 30 years.

Matthew David 47:28

If you haven't seen it.

Leah Jones 47:31

That’s impossible because I went and graduated high school in 1995, which was no more than 15 years ago. How 1992 was 30 years ago.

Matthew David 47:41

Yeah, the math doesn't line up. But let's not worry about that, right now. The main conflict of the movie is that these salesmen are having these new leads sort of dangled before them. And they're all having a hard time making sales and closing sales, and they're all afraid that they're going to lose their job. Ed Harris's character is probably the angriest of all of them. And he essentially decides that he and one of the other salesmen should burglarize their office and steal these new leads and make it look like random burglary. And they're going to take these new leads, and they're going to sell them to a competitor, who will then also hire them. So there's a bit of a twist in the movie because you see and hear Ed Harris's character, Dave Moss, enlisting Alan Arking’s character, George to go in with him on this. And that's one of the major scenes and that's one of the three scenes of Act One of the play, essentially their conversation in which Dave convinces or tries to convince George to be his partner in this burglary. And the second half of the play is the following morning when it becomes apparent that the office has been burglarized, and the leads have been stolen. So now it's a mystery, who did it because you know that the only thing you do know is that it Harris's character, didn't do it, but you don't know who did it. And you have a lot of reason to suspect that Alan Arking’s character, didn't do it. Throughout the movie, Jack Lemmon’s character, Shelley, The Machine Levene is very, very dismissive and abusive of Kevin Spacey, his character who is the office manager. And this is just an incredible performance by Jack Lemmon. It's just you watch this and you can't believe that any of these men are acting like this is beyond acting. It's like the way you felt, watching Heath Ledger play the Joker. There's a moment when everybody else feels like an actor, but they're acting with the Joker. Every actor, every person in Glengarry Glen Ross is a real person, you forget that, you know these people from other movies, they are their characters and it's completely immersive. And there's a moment at the very end of the movie in essentially the last 10 minutes and it may be even later than that, when Jack Lemmon has just paraded Kevin Spacey’s character and he's just given him shit for ruining Al Pacino’s sell. And he says, he has this throwaway line. He says, you should know if you're going to make something up, you'd better be sure that it helps. And Kevin Spacey is just kind of not even listening to Jack Lemmon. He's kind of just looking off to the side. And then, in this incredible moment of acting, he just refocuses his eyes. He just looks from the floor to Jack Lemmon who's in the distance and he's kind of like looking right past the viewer. And you see, it clicks in his mind. He realizes that Jack Lemons character that Shelley just said the wrong thing and revealed all and it all falls into place into Kevin Spacey’s character mind. And he realizes that the only way Jack Lemmon character would know that Kevin Spacey’s character had made something up, was if he had robbed the office. And he just looks up and he says, How do you know I made it up. And then there's this immediate switch in Jack Lemons character's whole demeanor. And he gets completely flustered and says what are you talking about? And Kevin Spacey very slowly and very deliberately says, how do you know, I made it up? And then he spells out exactly for Shelley where all the pieces fit and, and explains exactly why the only way Shelley would know that he had just made something up was if he had been in the office last night, robbing the place and it just turns the entire movie on his head. And everything just it's a mystery solved. It gives me chills every time. And even in the play a few years ago, I picked up a copy of the play as a book. And I keep it in my bedroom and I will read it just every so often, if I'm not watching the movie, I'm reading the play and that moment still gets me it clearly, it doesn't have the same effect as just words on a page. As watching Kevin Spacey delivered these lines and Jack Lemmon but in a movie that's just an hour and a half or two hours of just phenomenal performances. This moment is just the top of the mountain. Sometimes this is bizarre, but sometimes I will just watch those 10 minutes. Yeah, I will just watch that end of the movie.

Leah Jones 53:51

I don't think that's a weird.

Matthew David 53:52

Good and also are you familiar with Ghostbusters?

Matthew David 54:09

And we're back.

Leah Jones 54:10

And we're back.

Matthew David 54:11

Should we tell people about Ronnie now?

Leah Jones 54:14

We will. But before we get there, I would like to time travel. What was your first interaction with this movie or play? Did you see it in the theater?

Matthew David 54:25

I don't remember.

Leah Jones 54:26

It just always was.

Matthew David 054:28

Yeah, but I think, it wasn't because when you reminded me just now of when it came out? I definitely did not see it. Then. What do you say? 1992. I was, I had just begun college. And I don't remember, I have no idea and I also don't know, why I would have seen it. It doesn't seem like the kind of movie that I would have been interested in for a long time. It very well might have been a recommendation from a friend. I probably had no idea who David Mamet was. And I had never read any of his other plays. I recently, probably at the beginning of the pandemic, read all of his plays. Okay, at least a lot of them. I went to the library and grabbed everything I could. I'm sorry, David. I got them at the library.

Leah Jones 55:22

Authors from what I see love libraries.

Matthew David 55:25

Yes libraries are terrific. So, David Mamet's not making any money off of me. But the only other movie of his, that I've seen, I think is the Spanish Prisoner. Although I believe, he wrote a movie that most people don't know that he wrote. Except, I don't remember, what it was. So you're looking it up now. I can hear you typing.

Leah Jones 55:48

The Untouchables. The Postman Rings. Wag the dog, Hannibal.

Matthew David 55:54

David Mamet very accomplished writer, playwriter, screenwriter. And but I did not see it when it first came out. And I don't think, I ever saw him in the theater. And so, I do not know. And it would be nice. It would be fun for me to remember. Or maybe have my memory jogged and know why I first saw it but I think, I loved it as soon as I saw it, it was unlike, it still is unlike almost any other movie out there. It's all everybody talks about how it's all dialogue. It's just all talking and it's very in that regard is very different from most movies today, at least that that are wildly popular. There's no special effects.

Leah Jones 56:40

Right, it’s not even like multiple set pieces.

Matthew David 56:45

It's it takes place in a Chinese restaurant, in an office. And again, a lot of it on pay phones. And the dialogue as much as David Mamet is known for his dialogue, the dialogue is not realistic. People don't talk the way David Mamet characters talk, but it's so much fun to watch them and listen to them talk the way they do. That it doesn't matter. I mean, we watch movies all the time.

Leah Jones 57:17

[Not Audible] and Sherman Palladino, You don't always want to watch shows with people talking the way you talk. Sometimes you want to watch elevated wordplay and like highly structured. Like, I am big pentameter. You want to watch things with rhythm and vocabulary that you don't grasp in everyday life.

Matthew David 57:40

Absolutely. And there's a lot of crosstalk, especially in scenes with Ed Harris and Alan Arkin. There's, a terrific scene with him at a Donut shop and a coffee shop. And Alan Arkin, he's very much a secondary character. He stills the scene, his speech pattern steals the scene, the way he keeps trying to, I guess, get a word in edgewise with Ed Harris, but he doesn't really have anything to say. So he's just delivering these half lines or these single words at a time. And it's very well done and very specialized. I think that's not the word, I would have chosen. But it's very specialized dialogue and ends very virtuosic.

Leah Jones 58:40

Precise.

Matthew David 58:41

It is.

Leah Jones 58:41

David Mamet is not going to, I think, allow people to riff on his word.

Matthew David 58:48

I don't think there was much improvising, going on is very strict. But because it serves a purpose. You really you can't break like, each character is very, very well defined, and the way they talk and what they're, what they're talking about, and their motivations, and I think you can't stray far from that. And also, it's clear, if you read the play that it's, he clearly took what he had written, translated it and then flushed it out with more of the same. Fortunately, it's so good that more of the same is more of a good thing.

Leah Jones 59:25

Did you know that he wrote a Torah commentary with Rabbi Kushner of the wicked son?

Matthew David 59:33

I did not. Maybe I did. But like so many things that were touching upon I forgotten.

Leah Jones 59:39

Right. So Ronnie, who we have mentioned, people who listen to the podcast regularly have heard about because he accompanied me on many of the shenanigans of having cancer. He was often along for the ride.

Matthew David 59:57

I knew that.

Leah Jones 59:58

He was my original hospital husband, which is people that took me to the hospital. Any man who went with me to the hospital was immediately turned into my husband by the nurses. And any woman who took me to the hospital was not immediately upgraded to wife. So it was just funny. So I made people that said, today's hospital husband, so that they could claim the role, that they were.

Matthew David 1:00:31

I know that while this was nothing that Ronnie would ever want to do. I know that it was something that he was proud to be able to do and glad to be able to do for you. Even if nobody wants to have to do that. And you probably, can't do better than Ronnie, which is not to disparage any of your other husbands or hospital sisters or what have you. But…

Leah Jones 1:00:56

My hospital husbands and Sister Wives.

Matthew David 1:00:59

So I know, Ronnie and I went to college together and I've known Ronnie for 27 years. And I may officially make this the last time that I say this, because it's getting a bit old. But Ronnie and I did not like each other, when we first met. And we reminisce about this. And I think as the years have gone by, especially the most recent years, I think both gotten a little tired of remembering that we didn't like each other when we first met. So we've been very much moving the emphasis from that mutual dislike to how good friends we are. How do I want to say that? What good friends, we are now. And Ronnie is, this may be where Ronnie finds out about this. But Ronnie is one of my best friends. Ronnie would be anyone's best friend. And the problem was, when we first met, he was probably the best friend of the guy that I want it to be my best friend. So we were essentially competing for the attentions of a mutual friend.

Leah Jones 1:02:15

Have you now ousted the middle guy? And now you're just friends with each other.

Matthew David 1:02:19

No, we're all friends. But Ronnie and I probably do keep in touch more. But the three of us are all very good friends. And in fact, the three of us got together last summer with two other friends, two female friends of ours, five of us got together. Not this past summer, but the summer before, they all came out to Long Island where I am. It was very convenient for me. Not so much for them. But you know,

Leah Jones 1:02:43

You are the person who lives on an island.

Matthew David 1:02:47

I live in an island and island of 6 million but still. We all got an Airbnb, and Ronnie's brother happened to be in the neighborhood. So it worked out very well for Ronnie. Ronnie got to see friends and family. And we all got to see Ronnie and yes, that mutual friend. We've all been friends for 27 years since we started college and Ronnie and our friend Brad were two of my first friends in college and I don't remember when the shift took place because again, we're not we're not focusing on that.

Leah Jones 1:03:19

You are not focusing on that, I have heard stories of pun competition. Like a pun. Pun off maybe. And I don't know, if that means might just be the life, that might just be the story of your friendship. Is there a lot of puns, lot of work.

Matthew David 1:03:35

There are. There is a lot of wordplay and Ronnie and I make a lot of puns, a lot of wordplay in our emails, in our chats, and texts and Ronnie calls me every year on my birthday. He is the only person besides my mom. Ronnie does that. He's a caller.

Leah Jones 1:03:55

He has a caller and he is a birthday…

Matthew David 1:03:57

No, he's excellent at remembering birthdays. And I think this year might be the first time, I didn't let it go to voicemail. Because I felt, he finally earned it. He'd been calling me so many years and I've been just pretending not to be near my phone for so long. This podcast might be the end of our friendship as it turns out, we had a good run, Ronnie. We had a really good run. So but Ronnie is great. And at some point, Ronnie became someone that I would send every new thing that I've written to. He is one of my first readers. And he's an excellent first reader. In fact, just to loop back a little bit, Ronnie was at first didn't want to but then realized, he had to point out a problem with an earlier version of Odder Space. There was something a bit sensitive, that the details aren't important, but he was on the fence about whether to bring it up or not. And I'm glad he did, because it's a much better book for not just blowing past it, but hanging a lantern or putting a hat on this topic. And that's the only thing that might be considered, one of those more serious things. But it's still, it doesn't elevate it to any territory. But there's a little bit of a life slash history lesson that it's not dwelt upon, but it is touched upon. And it was, Ronnie, and another one of our friends from that group of five who really made me think about it. And it was a little eye opening because I was kind of treating something a little flippantly. And I was glad that they didn't take offense. But they said, hey, someone could, and maybe don't present it this way. And it was fairly easy. Not that I wouldn't have done it, if it weren't easy, but it was the the solution presented itself pretty readily take this and turn it into a learning moment. And I was very, I still am really grateful that he did not say anything for fear of like bugging me. I mean, he probably remembered Hey, this guy used to hate me. So what's the worst that could happen now?

Leah Jones 1:06:43

It's always a risk.

Matthew David 1:06:45

I don't think, we're going to move backward. So Ronnie is a great guy. I strongly recommend Ronnie to everyone. So Glengarry Glen Ross, and then call Ronnie at 1888, Ronnie.

Leah Jones 1:07:05

  1. It's my birthday. . He will always call on your birthday.

Matthew David 1:07:15

I'd love to tell something embarrassing about Ronnie, but I don't know anything embarrassing about Ronnie. I don't know that he's ever shared anything embarrassing about him. He probably must have. But I probably filter that out and I just think of it only glowing terms.

Leah Jones 1:07:42

I think the other thing to wrap it up that I'm curious about and we're going to hold some that you're going to come back. Are you excited? Bands with Letters for names specifically REM ecstasy and TMGB ?

Matthew David 1:08:00

They Might Be Giants. So one, that's a little bit of a cheat because we call them TMBG. But really, it's They Might Be Giants. So the rule of three, you got to have a third. But I don't specifically like bands with names that are letters. It just happens that three of my favorite bands. And it has been this way for a long time, our REM, XTC, and They Might Be Giants. And again, nobody needs me to tell them about any of these bands. If you're going to go discover REM because of me telling you then there's a problem. That said, if you are not familiar with REM, XTC, or They Might Be Giants, please do check them out. And I will say this

Leah Jones 1:08:51

I am very much realizing XTC is [Not Audible]. Who is a female Hip Hop band, I thought it was?

Matthew David 1:08:58

The female hip hop at TLC? I'm a fan of TLC, but not in the way.

Leah Jones 1:09:06

Now I just want you to go into my brain and replace XTC with TLC and see how what an interesting mix of music it was, when it was REM, TLC and They Might Be Giants, as your top three bands, on everything we knew already about Mamet and just how confused that was.

Matthew David 1:09:27

Which is not to say that we don't sometimes ask Alexa to play TLC, which I might actually just have inadvertently done by saying that. Fortunately, I'm far enough away from the speaker that you won't hear them but no, XTC was a band from the late 70s, well into the early 90s, which started out as five guys and gradually was whittled down to two. Most people, if they know anything about XTC know the songs Making Plans for Nigel, which was probably their biggest hit, although I don't think it was their best song, and Dear God, or The Ballad of Peter Pumpkin Head or the Mayor of Simpleton. Okay, Leah, you have a lot of work to do. You might need to take tomorrow off from work.

Leah Jones 1:10:25

Okay, here's Making Plans for Nigel.

Matthew David 1:10:28

Yes.

Leah Jones 1:10:37

So in 2016, it ranked 143 on pitchforks list of the 200 best songs of the 1970s. So did it have a maybe a second?

Matthew David 1:10:53

I don't know that XTC had a resurgence. They've pretty much been defunct since, I want to say, very early 2000s. And they're not coming back. Again, by the end, it was just two of them. And I'm pretty sure that the two of them don't speak anymore. But the engine behind the XTC was always, a man named Andy Partridge. I believe he turns 70. In fact, there was just an article in The Guardian, I think it was an interview with him catching up with him and what

Leah Jones 1:11:34

November 11th was his birthday. He'll be 69.

Matthew David 1:11:37

So he will be 70 next year. Andy Partridge is the main songwriter and the lead singer and he is just a gift. And he's got some, I don't know, there was something about his politics a few years ago that got him into a little bit of trouble and I've kind of turned a blind eye deaf ear to what his politics are. I don't know for certain that they're not in line with mine. And I don't want to know. I confess to being willfully ignorant. Because I simply do not want to have to be unhappy with the man, I think is the greatest songwriter that we've ever had, was the greatest modern day English songwriter. I don't know many others in other languages, but

Leah Jones 1:12:38

He has Synesthesia , which is always interesting to talk to people about.

Matthew David 1:12:42

Yes. I can't speak to his Synesthesia. It sounds kind of purple to me. But Ronnie, you'll appreciate that.

Leah Jones 1:12:52

I missed the drum, way, way. Wait, it sounds can't wait. Where is it? I going to find it.

Matthew David 1:12:58

Tell me when it's queued up. I can't speak to Andy Partridges Synesthesia. All sounds purple to me.

Leah Jones 1:13:11

A little bit of a lag, doesn't need a one second.

Matthew David 1:13:15

We could have heard all of Making Plans for Nigel to get that time. But are we talking about purple? I like purple. Or do you guys know about purple? It's a big color.

Leah Jones 1:13:28

Yeah, a big fan of purple before I went to Northwestern, but like the more after.

Matthew David 1:13:32

It’s a charming color, it’s deep, deep purple. So Andy Partridge XTC, love them really sophisticated songwriting. And I think a few years ago, I started making a list of what I thought were the best pop or rock lyrics, song lyrics, and I came up with such gems as like, doo doo doo doo by the police, dadada. But I think, the first prize goes to Andy Partridge for a lyric in the song, The man who murdered love, which might have been on their last album, either their last or second to last. And the line is, it's the middle of the song. In the middle of the song right about at the instrumental break, he sings it's the middle of the song. Genius, songwriting genius. And it's subtle. It's not easy to hear. And once I realized that what he was saying, that was just that took it to a ticket to David my Mission proportions. David met Median levels.

Leah Jones 1:14:53

When we were kids, when we would our grandparents retired to Texas so we would drive from Indiana to Texas to see them.

Matthew David 1:15:01

Just to clarify, not our grandparents, yours and mine. We don't have any grandparents in common?

Leah Jones 1:15:07

Not that we know of.

Matthew David 1:15:08

Correct. So you and someone else used to drive to Texas to see your grandparents.

Leah Jones 1:15:14

To the Jones, drive to Texas.

Matthew David 1:15:18

Was everybody behind you trying to keep up with you?

Leah Jones 1:15:21

Especially in the years when we drove a hearse to Texas.

Matthew David 1:15:24

Really? You should have a podcast.

Leah Jones 1:15:28

And so we're looking at the Atlas. Because it was map, paper Atlas, You drove cross country at the time. And we kept joking that we were about to get to the staple. We're going to get to the staple in the map. And when we got there, we passed a ranch, whose gate looked like a staple. It was so we were like, we're at the staple . And we looked over and there was a gigantic staple in front of a ranch.

Matthew David 1:16:00

And if that's the sort of thing that you would do on purpose. If you knew that there was if there was one Atlas, or one map that most people had, the Rand McNally Road Atlas. And you saw that you had the property that was by the staple, I would have to do that. Like there's almost no amount of money that I wouldn't spend. There's no such thing as too much money to spend on that joke.

Leah Jones 1:16:26

It's a great joke. And we, I mean, it has been, I don't know how many years? So 30 years ago, I was 15. So, oh, my God, probably like 35 years ago.

Matthew David 1:16:44

Wow.

Leah Jones 1:16:47

It was really in that to me is at the level of it's the middle of the song, Where's this staple in the Atlas? And you'd look up and you see a literal giant staple, like it's

Matthew David 1:16:57

It’s the Swing line wrench. It's like you press button on patronizing laughter. Hit that clip. He's telling a joke here.

Leah Jones 1:17:16

Just keeps going. It goes too long. Like the drum joke starts too late. And the lighting just goes too long.

Matthew David 1:17:22

Did you pay for these? These sound clips?

Leah Jones 1:17:27

They came with it. I paid for Riverside as a service. And these are the bonuses. I feel like these are bonuses. Well, Matthew, this has been fun.

Matthew David 1:17:39

This has been a laugh riot. No, I've thoroughly enjoyed this. And I look forward to recording our next episode tomorrow. And our third one tomorrow afternoon.

Leah Jones 1:17:48

Great. In between, I will go vote. I tried to vote.

Matthew David 1:17:53

Oh, that's a good plan.

Leah Jones 1:17:55

I did try to vote.

Matthew David 1:18:01

Try harder now.

Leah Jones 1:18:02

I will. I got there. And it was an hour wait for early voting.

Matthew David 1:18:06

That's interesting. I was just talking to someone before this session about voting and waiting in lines. And I don't think in all my years of voting, I'm in my late 40s, so I've been voting for like two or three years. And in all my years of voting, I don't remember ever having to wait on election day. Maybe I've just gotten very lucky or I lived in very efficient places. But I know that of course, waiting in lines, and especially in rural places and other places around the country can be a significant problem and is a significant problem. And I realized that this is maybe just where I've lived on Long Island in New Jersey and Boston, but I've never had to wait, if there's ever been a wait, it was just a couple of people. And I've never felt like, it was a shore or I was going to be here for a long time. And I had to make a decision about, is this how I wanted to spend my time? And only recently have I been thinking about that as a problem for people like you've been waiting in line an hour, that's an hour out of your day. And a lot of people don't have an hour to just stand there waiting to do something that takes 30 seconds. As important as it is, there's an analysis you have to do and I've never factored that in. I've also never, I've also always thought of it as something that's so important that it doesn't matter if I have to wait. I'm going to wait.

Leah Jones 1:19:35

Yeah, I agree, if I have to wait, I'm going to wait. It's a beautiful sunny day in Chicago today, which is great. It's great weather for voting, it is great weather to get out of the house. And I went to an early voting site, and I was truly everybody who got there was like, Whoa, this is the Whoa, right? And so I can just get up early on Tuesday and go across the street to my precinct and just vote. Get in and out. 15 minutes. But it's also the first time, I voted since I have not. I can't. I can no longer stand for an hour like as I regain my strength after chemotherapy, like I can't actually stand in line for an hour, and I had my cane, but I have like, Birkenstocks on and I just like didn't think through. Like, do I have the best shoes on? Do I have like a little stool with me? Like, I didn't think through what I needed to have with me to safely wait in line for an hour?

Matthew David 1:20:37

Sure. I think at this point, we will wind up voting on Tuesday, because I believe, we're going to vote at our children's school. And we're going on for parent teacher conferences. I mean, this is all designed this way. The schools out kids will be with us. We're going in for two conferences. We vote there. It's all actually very convenient. And I don't imagine that we're going to have to wait. But if we do, we do. And we did. We meant to vote early. But we kept not voting early. But, that runs out on Tuesday anyway, so by Tuesday, we will have voted.

Leah Jones 1:21:23

Yeah, the good news is I did my cheat sheet because we have to vote for Judge Retention in Chicago and it's very confusing. And in general, retain him, except for these five. But it's five out of 40. So you like going to find their names.

Matthew David 1:21:40

Wow. We don't have that here in New York. At least I don't believe we do. Caller I might correct. No. So yeah, no, it's a little simpler. But that, I don't I've never needed to really prepare much in advance. I'm pretty much an across the board in a straight line.

Leah Jones 1:22:01

Yeah, I am to the things I want to understand are there's like an amendment on the ballot, like the things that are always written to, to make you vote the opposite way that you believe. So I wanted to make sure I knew the right. Yeah, the vote and correctly on those.

Matthew David 1:22:20

Yes, that's important. And that's not enough people take that time. That's exactly as you say, there's a way to work things so that it takes advantage of the fact that people are not preparing in advance. And, back of the ballot may not even like, my wife and I were just talking that there is one proposition on our ballot that we will need to remember to turn the piece of paper over for. And that's a lot of work. I mean, imagine having to wait in line and turn your piece of paper over. Come on. I could be doing other things. I could be watching Glengarry Glen Ross or listening to TLC.

Leah Jones 1:22:58

So Matthew David Brozik, The novel is Odder Space. It's available now on Amazon in print or digital. We want people to get print to see those nice, nice chapter headings. Do you want people to keep up with you online? How do you want people to know about you in the future?

Matthew David 1:23:16

I haven't been that. I don't know. I don't have that much to say or report on a day-to-day basis that most people would be interested in. Maybe if this book blows up as one of the spaceships does, then I'll need to. Funny thing is about two weeks ago, I had already shut down my personal Twitter account, not for to make any statement. I just got tired of it. And then about two weeks ago, in preparation for the launch of this book, I set up a new Twitter account. But I'm not even going to bother to tell you the handle because I literally have not posted one thing on it. So there's no reason to follow me in any meaningful way. I post on Facebook, I'm not doing anything on other social media. No, Insta, no TikTok. Because I'm not that interesting, If you don't know me. If you like to know more, you can always visit IMDB dot name and there's a link to send me an email. We can be email friends, and then they can become your birthday friend. And my phone number is 516. Now that's all you're getting. You already know I live on Long Island. So I got that. Tony 516 area code.

Leah Jones 1:24:55

Very fancy. Well, my cat cowboy has John Time to my computer to tell me, it's I believe dinnertime or something with the time change. But Matthew, this has been a delight. Thank you so much.

Matthew David 1:25:06

Likewise. Thank you.

Announcer 1:25:08

Thank you for listening to Finding Favorites with Leah Jones. Please make sure to subscribe and drop us a five-star review on iTunes. Now go out and enjoy your favorite things.

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